queer or gay?

All true. Gay implies to me something entertaining or jovial. I'm really not entertaining. Queer I love. It's more encompassing.

In another post Justin mentions 'the other.' That feeling of otherness was, for me, the seed of enormous personal growth. Coming to terms with my feeling of otherness, embracing it, and becoming proud of it has taken me on quite an incredible trip. Now it's a source of power and fulfillment for me, and the word "queer" associates the sense of otherness to my current identity quite beautifully.

Also, I don't always identify with other gay people, but outsiders, different folks, alternatives, outcasts... I'm almost always drawn to them, interested in them, and feel a certain connection to them.

I've come across this dilemma before. What I do know is that I hate, HATE the words faggot, queer, fudgepacker, etc. I hate them. They are homophobic. It's as simple as that.
It's sad because I even hear other progressive people use these words and I make the argument why, if you are for gay rights, then you won't use these words.
I try not to define myself and it is hard. I just go by gay, but I am open to the possibility of being with a woman.
For the time being, I like to fuck men and I like getting fucked by men. :)
An interesting bit of information I'd like to throw out there is that historical evidence shows that it wasn't until 1869 that a gay identity was created. Before then, there were no homosexuals, just homosexual acts. I find that incredible.

queer always worked well for me.

though my experience of my sexuality happens to fit perfectly well into the gay box. and it's sometimes difficult for me to understand the point of view of people whose sexuality is more ambiguous and confusing.

i was lucky enough to have the vocabulary of "gay" even before i started experiencing it. when i started feeling attracted to boys at around 11 or so i knew very early what it was and described myself as gay pretty painlessly. i never felt any particular attraction to girls and had rejected the whole christian/homophobic thing pretty strongly so i wasn't particularly divided about it internally.

so i've never had a problem with the gay label and do think of myself and others in those terms.

but i still like queer.

for political reasons mainly. because it unifies all of those who deviate from normalized heterosexuality under one word.

and also because i've always been an outsider regardless of my sexuality. always been weird, never really felt like part of a group.

i'm gay and queer at the same time and don't particularly think they interfere with each other.

No matter what word is used to describe homosexuals it will become a negative word. I feel that's because society at large views us negatively and none of the words will be positive until gays (or queers) are no longer seen as wrong.

I feel the words have no importance because no matter which one is used you are describing the same thing. It shouldn't matter which word you use if you are willing to accept the definition.

But to answer the question, I prefer gay. Queer sounds funny to me don't know why.

"i like being queer better than gay because it explains how i am also asexual, a lateral thinker and an oddball."


I dislike the term "queer" for precisely that reason. I don't need a word to define myself as an outsider. I already know that much. However, my outsiderness is *not* my sexuality. I have not done any sexual acts that Bill Clinton and Monica Levinsky haven't done. Nobody calls them queer.

How about if some one ask you what you are, just say: "I'm doing my own thing with like minds and bodies." Huh!?! But at least its not a label.

When I hear the word 'queer', I'm reminded of some valley girl saying: "Oooooh...My...God! He is like, so queeeer!

When I hear the word 'fag' or 'faggot' I'm reminded of the closeted homophobia guy who wants to externlize hate of himself.

When I hear the word 'gay'; why does the film "Victor/Victoria" or "La Cage Aux Folles" comes to mind?

When I hear the word 'perv' a 60 year old hetero male who desires 9-13 year old boys comes to mind.

So I guess my expression, and not label, can be: "Being what I enjoy doing."

When I was very young, i met a large group of gay men for the first time, and one in particular caught my eye. When i got the nerve to talk to him, I asked him if he was gay or bisexual, and he said, "I'm neither, I'm just sexual". Then later he fucked me silly, but that's beyond the point. I didn't understand it then, and I still don't. A rose by anyother name, blah blah blah. I'm a fag. Call it as you see it. I think if you know you're going to be perceived as something, be prepared to be named by it. The doctor is called doctor. The not so pleasant are called assholes. If you're not ashamed, why cringe at the words people use to describe you?

As I have aged, I have become more aware of how words define and affect people and, simultaneously, less caring about having words thrown at me in an attempt to define me. To me, they are just words and those words being used usually define the person using them more than me or any other person they are being directed towards.

I have been through homo, faggot, cocksucker, queen, and queer and don't find them particularly bothersome. I will admit, the hair on my neck bristles when someone who doesn't know me calls me a "faggot" for some odd reason. After thinking about it, it is not the fact that they chose the word "faggot" to call me that bothered me. It was the fact that they were attempting to belittle or degrade me in some fashion. The act is what bothered me, not the word.

The truth is, I just don't care about the "words" so much anymore. I don't define myself so simply as to be able to express my being in one four or six letter word. If someone else chooses to define me in that way, well, see first paragraph.

So, if I had to pick a word for myself, I would choose "queer" as I am much more odd than sexual.....right now.

Generally I prefer the word queer because it is the least specific, it literally means not straight or to veer off a straight course. I take that to mean not following the inertia of society which at least here in the USofA has been dominated by the concept of the nuclear family for the last century or so.

I also identify as gay, faggot and especially queen. I think they all have their own connotations. None of them define me, but they all reflect aspects of my sexuality, style and presence in a fluid kind of way. My comfort with these terms might also be related to the fact that I made it this far in life without experiencing being called one of these names while being physically threatened.

And clinically I guess I'm a homosexual. In addition to generally not being sexually attracted to women, I consciously avoid sleeping with women to minimized the complications in my life.

Sexual identity as it stands today is a product of the Victorian era's endeavor to categorize everything. Bugs, plants, races, personalities. Science as a field only started coming into its own in the 18th century, the age of enlightment.

Before that, in European based societies, you had the church as the ultimate authority on everything. Marriage was around but hardly anyone married for love, marriages were contractual agreements dealing with legalities of property. The poor, which was most people, usually didn't even bother with marriage, they just shacked up. And people were just sexual. A middleclass guy may have really liked sucking cock and had a male lover but he was also likely to be appropriately married and raising a family.

Most folks could get away with this behaviour unless they were perceived to be disruptive to society or negligent to their social duties. There were anti-sodomy laws on the books before the coining of the term homosexual. Queer men and women in earlier periods were often persecuted as witches or as people possessed by demons. Humanity seems to have a compulsion to categorize things whether its faith based on reason based.

There is an amazing amount material on 19th century's pursuit to understand and quantify sex, gender and behaviour. It introduced to us lovely terms such as homosexual, hysteria, and masturbation to name a few.

But in the end do we need these labels? Not really, they are simply a cultural product that may come in handy when we maneuver through society. Ultimately we need to bear in mind that labels do not simply reflect who we are, but have the power to shape us, for better or worse.

So wow, I didn't realize I had that much to say. One last thing. I'm loving the threads in this tribe lately, thanks for all the various view points.

If I had a real choice... "Gatekeeper" seems to be most apt.