http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#3b8bda98-0497-4cc5-bd21-b2b19b946579 Your right on target on todays 'Gay Porn' Johnny! aint they just the PURDEEEEIST SMOOOOTH Lovely 'Creamiest TWINKS' you ever laid eyes on? "Oooohh HI! I'm 18 but I look 12...Wanna Fuck a Purdy Li'l Sissy?" YUCKK! PHELEPHHHHT! Todays 'Boy Porn' is downright Nuaseous! Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:56:57 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#3b8bda98-0497-4cc5-bd21-b2b19b946579 Jake 2007-03-09T05:56:57Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#5479331a-7ad1-4ef4-9ff1-9fef14c48564 LOL. Oh yes, Johnny, I do believe that your outlook is quite, well...Johnny. That, however, is completely wonderful! Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:46:50 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#5479331a-7ad1-4ef4-9ff1-9fef14c48564 Roger 2007-03-09T00:46:50Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#53af7376-611b-4dcb-806b-be068cc87d0d I've never thought of it as 'shopping' before, but that's a good way to put it. I'm (unfortunately?) a perfectionist in almost every sense of the word... and I suppose that applies to guys as well. Perhaps interesting was the fact that I went to a club for the first time this year, last weekend... and didn't see anyone I truly found attractive, without some sort of caveat (like, 'he's good looking, but, ___). Then again, personalities aren't being figured in, and they seem to make the final decision as to whether I'm attracted or not. That being said, when I buy an item of clothing or a camera or anything... it takes me hours to decide on it in the first place, but once I buy it, that's it, I won't return it. There's no 'trial period' for me, because I believe that if I put the time into figuring out which thing suits me best, I should be happy with the final decision. I figure that it's the same way with guys. It's not that I'm looking for a 'relationship in a box' type solution. I think that once I find the right connection with someone, I know I'd be committed to making it work because I know I put the effort into finding someone whom it had the potential to work with in the first place. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 22:02:29 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#53af7376-611b-4dcb-806b-be068cc87d0d Adam 2007-03-08T22:02:29Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#3f8b2c6a-85df-4d64-8ea6-3bedf147a820 Porn could be to blame if it wasn't so fucking BAD. There is nothing more gross than watching two cleaned up, carbon copied Stepford Fag men fuck who look like they were just manufactered out of some kind of Ken Doll factory. Even in the so-called "alt porn" they just look like stereotypical plucked, pop culture twinks who shaved their heads into mohawks just for the films and are about as "punk" as the pimple on Ann Coulter's pussy. Gay porn does nothing for me at all; (then again my sexual taste usually runs into the very extreme; my fave porn is the heterosexual "Avantgarde Extreme" series from KitKat/Innovative Productions, so perhaps I'm the wrong one to give an opinion). All I know is, that if I wanted to get off on or fuck a robot, I would simply BUILD ONE. You may as well just order a blow up doll via mail order; you'd get the same look (and most likely the same personality) as the joke that call itself "gay porn". Thu, 08 Mar 2007 04:18:09 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#3f8b2c6a-85df-4d64-8ea6-3bedf147a820 $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-08T04:18:09Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#904a3d2e-1a71-40d3-8b2a-1a55490efd03 The image issues could be partially about porn, certainly the over-sexualized nature of 'gay-dating'. However, I still think the heart of the matter is a disconnect between reality / responsibility and the average gay man's perception of it. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 03:43:28 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#904a3d2e-1a71-40d3-8b2a-1a55490efd03 $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-08T03:43:28Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#d69d37de-7a1c-422a-ae2b-ced7a62871d2 I think porn has fucked up a lot of guys, gay or straight. Once I got over my body image issues which were often fueled by popular culture and porn, I was able to get over my issues about the people I choose to fuck and date. I have met more genuine people and had more intimate and friendly encounters. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:58:07 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#d69d37de-7a1c-422a-ae2b-ced7a62871d2 Bradley 2007-03-08T00:58:07Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#c850f64c-cec2-4065-b54d-db9236bbf234 Scott: I do agree with your assessment of the current issue. How much of this behavior do you think can be partially laid at the doorstep of pornographic materials. I can't help but think that the constant viewing or pornographic materials skews our perception of what a "real" man should look like and what "true", "liberating" sexual intercourse should be and how it should be enjoyed. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:24:51 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#c850f64c-cec2-4065-b54d-db9236bbf234 Roger 2007-03-08T00:24:51Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#889bd268-beaf-4c9f-8651-50bbded10625 I like that distinction, shopping and dating. Actually I think I have become clearer on that over the years and of late. I actually look forward to becoming friends with the guys I fuck around with. I didn't think I could in the past. I have dated some guys and have been equally disappointed at times. I should say I think that you date friends as well. You go out, get to know them a little bit by little bit and decide if you want to keep being friends. I just am tired of thinking about it all the time. It really gets in the way of my enjoying life in the moment. I am really not such the hedonist that I may present. I have had to unbunch my panties over the years. The way I look at it is that life offers you all kinds of opportunities and each one has its own "goodies". You never where you are gonna learn something new or exciting. Even disappointment can be a useful emotion and make clear your true desires. if you feel "bad", then that's what friends and chocolate are for. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:27:41 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#889bd268-beaf-4c9f-8651-50bbded10625 Bradley 2007-03-07T19:27:41Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#1a7af4af-897e-4f11-9b27-8e0ea83e58ba >>Why should I have a boyfriend. Or a partner. Relationships seem to have a baby at it's logical end. And, we all know butt-babies never live. Why do I have to be an upper middle manager who drives a black Miata and shops at American Eagle and Kenneth Cole. i must be hung over... i saw Black militia Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:54:13 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#1a7af4af-897e-4f11-9b27-8e0ea83e58ba $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-07T18:54:13Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#7b288357-153c-4b20-b2f6-b56fe7c08214 Gay men's dating woes stem from the fact that they don't date, they shop. Dating is about finding someone you want to commit to building a relationship with. Instead, most gay men are out there looking for this perfect hot guy who they can have an instant 'relationship' with. If he's not quite perfect, next! If a hotter guy comes along, next! If it takes work, next! I think you get my drift. The 'pressure' to find someone, 'like heterosexuals' probably comes from the same place it does for heterosexuals. People who want you to curb this shopping around behavior. Btw, I'm single and I'm guilty of shopping...and settling(but that's another post). Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:29:11 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#7b288357-153c-4b20-b2f6-b56fe7c08214 $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-07T14:29:11Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#1214e1cd-3e44-4e77-9094-69338203e956 I get that. My longest "dry period was six years. I joined a rugby team last summer and all the exercise makes me horny. I guess I am tired of "apologizing" for my sexuality. Especially to other gay men. Trust me, sometimes only a couple of Nestle's Crunch bars and Medium will do it for me. Some of the best sex I've had involed no coming or penetration, or fellatio for that matter. I see my sexuality as integral. It is not my only quality. I several other's. You should spend a day thrift shopping with me. And, I am not poo-pooing relationships. I am questioning the over-arching requirement thereof. Just cause we always have doesn't mean that we always should. There are no rules, but the ones we impose on ourselves. It is all an illusion. Ohm. I am off to rugby to be landed on and tackled. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:43:17 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#1214e1cd-3e44-4e77-9094-69338203e956 Bradley 2007-03-07T01:43:17Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#11fd8b8a-f170-456e-9cb8-0e6e971a2d28 Bradley: Why does there have to be sexual intercourse at all? There exists today a plethora of media to stimulate us sexually. Sexual intercourse -- to use the pop-culture phraseology -- is so last century. Lol. It is a new day, in that, the power of a touch (however sensuous), a hug and meaningful conversation are the crux of a relationship. Sex is a by-product. Relationships do not culminate in bearing children. A relationship culminates in you wanting to be closer to that person. In a sense, it is like a conundrum of selfishness because in essence, the more time you spend with someone, you hope the more you fall in love with them because they make you feel good. However, that person, too, is enjoying your company as well, and he seeks to be with you more. That pull of wanting to be around each other, touching, feeling and conversing is the ultimate culmination (to use an absurd redundancy). That sort of romancing is important, not only to us as individuals, but to us as a culture. The prickly reality, however, is figuring out whether or not it should be consummated solely within the paradigms of serial monogamy. It does seem, though, that some of us in this very tribe have already figured that out, hence, the descriptions of "open" relationships. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:36:30 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#11fd8b8a-f170-456e-9cb8-0e6e971a2d28 Roger 2007-03-07T01:36:30Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#ec783d1a-b17d-4c7e-a104-dc41a7228060 Why should I have a boyfriend. Or a partner. Relationships seem to have a baby at it's logical end. And, we all know butt-babies never live. Why do I have to be an upper middle manager who drives a black Miata and shops at American Eagle and Kenneth Cole. And, attachment? Why do I have to move in with someone. Why can't I love you and be there for you, but not live with you and fuck only you? Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:52:58 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#ec783d1a-b17d-4c7e-a104-dc41a7228060 Bradley 2007-03-07T00:52:58Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#d8dc5cd0-69dc-4c98-8a2e-fb79a80773ad I've been trying to think how to respond to this one... I used to think that I 'should' have a boyfriend. Because that's just the life that we're taught to live by the media and by culture in general. They're busy trying to sell 'DINK' (dual-income, no kids) couples the latest SUV and a house with 2 bedrooms that does everything you could ever want in the kitchen when you push one button. That's the way we're *supposed* to live, according to marketers. But that's according to them. If I could pick a lifestyle right now, I'd be somewhere in California, have 6 cars, and a career that I found enlightening and challenging. Those things... would take priority over any possible 'boyfriend'. More recently I felt that I should get some 'experience' before I attempt to date anyone too seriously. Interestingly enough, I didn't end up liking that experience all that much... and now, after worrying that I was asexual, I'm thinking it's more of a matter of finding someone that I can connect with. That's hard, especially since I know that I've got a quirky personality and find myself attracted to guys relatively infrequently, but I'd like to find someone that 'gets me'. None of this stops me from looking around- at the very least, I like meeting new people, whether it be for a couple dates or for an actual friendship. Even if it never goes anywhere, it's still interesting to meet different people and hear different opinions. Of people I've tried dating, I've found two things. Either I'm completely far too interested in making it go somewhere and the other person is ambivalent about it, or, I'm just totally uninterested and don't even bother calling them back (and in some cases they bother me incessantly for a while, I ignore it usually). I guess the ideal there would be not to become too attached (attachment is a scary thing, whether it's a person or a material object- and you bring up co-dependency, which is even scarier), but at the same time, have enough interest to want to pursue something. I'm not promiscuous. I prefer to take care of my 'needs' by myself, and what I find myself wanting from others is not sex, but affection. Maybe that'll change, I'm still young, but for now that makes things complicated as it seems most guys my age have different goals. Meeting people is also difficult... I hate the club and bar scenes, and the gay village in Montreal makes me uncomfortable- I'm more a coffee shop/ stay at home kinda guy. Plus, the kinds of people that go to these clubs and bars have completely different values and a different outlook on life from me, and thus the whole 'you're nice, but.. I don't understand you' thing comes up on both sides. Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:21:12 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#d8dc5cd0-69dc-4c98-8a2e-fb79a80773ad Adam 2007-03-06T22:21:12Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#00ba1b74-3246-4b7a-b92d-6f09fcce92cc I'm in an open relationship with two men. Steve (46 years old, award winning film director) and Leland (25 years old, actor and music producer). Steve and I started out first (going on 3 years) and Leland I met though film work as we were in a film together. My boyfriend before this was going on 9 years before he became a missing person and was murdered back in 2001 in Halifax, Canada. The three of us work and live together and it's a great set up; we couldn't be happier. In fact, although we have in the past, we never really act on the open relationship anymore because there is no need to. There is no jealousy in our relationship at all. Not EVER. If anyone told me 5 years ago that I was going to be in an open relationship with two men I would have told them they were INSANE. IT was something I was totally against. (further proof how mindsets change with age...for the record I'm 33). None of us are gay bar types or "bar types" at all for that matter. Most of the time we're too busy filming, doing various projects and travelling to different locaton shootings to actually even think about going out even if we wanted to as we all do different genres in the industry (Steve is very mainstream film industry, Leland mostly with music and I'm more an underground film type). I wouldn't be able to handle them running off to the "Eagle" every 5 minutes though or are very involved in the "gay scene" (the gay scene, it's culture and lifestyle never applied to any of us as the common interests between it and us just aren't there). In that case you should probably just be single because it's evident what you want. Perhaps if we were the type of people to actually go out to bars and clubs it would be different but I feel extremely lucky that we're not like that. Our idea of a kick ass time out is going to see a metal gig, filming/work or kicking back with a beer and a good cult movie. It can work, we're living proof. Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:39:52 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#00ba1b74-3246-4b7a-b92d-6f09fcce92cc $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-05T07:39:52Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#d862f341-093f-449c-b7bd-a9906e242cfd so today i see a certain friend on the street with his two adopted kids and he's struggling with the both of them.... one child is running two clocks away from him and his partner is a bar for beerbust getting drunk....and they've been together for 10 years. I saw this explicit anger in eyes when he told me, as im briskly walking back from work, "he's at the eagle".... they have an open re;ationship and I have NEVER seen these two in the same room....or open space.... i see these guys ALL the time...at least twice a week!!!!! hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:42:29 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#d862f341-093f-449c-b7bd-a9906e242cfd $item.owner.firstName 2007-03-05T06:42:29Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#b664abd9-2af6-4c8a-8c59-79b21f34a287 How about being brave enough to have it exactly way that you want it. That's the way I used to feel. And, it screwed with me. I lived my life always wanting one thing and settling for another. I had to understand that I am good enough (dammit :-) ). Seriously. Someone elses hang-ups are not a repudiation of me. I know I'm a caring person. I know that I am a passionate and sexual person, interested in my partners pleasure. Some people don't feel the same way for whatever reason. It's ok if you want to be fucked one day and that's what you want to do and you don't want a whole lot of entanglements. You are a guy with needs. Sometimes you don't want to feel sexual at all. Sometimes you want a sweet someone to be naked with and cuddle. Or, maybe not even naked. There are no rules other than honoring yourself by not doing what is deleterious to yourself. If you do something you don't enjoy so much, then don't do it again. Or, at least ask yourself why you get off on doing something that makes you uncomfortable. I assure you I have found myself liking somethings that I never thought I would. And, it's exciting knowing I may find something new and outside of my experience. It's all about not limiting yourself. True living is about allowing yourself to risk. Otherwise you are just a lonely and bored couch potato wondering why life is passing you by. Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:41:27 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#b664abd9-2af6-4c8a-8c59-79b21f34a287 Bradley 2007-02-25T22:41:27Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#6bd6fd47-9280-4322-a862-8ed36e6e2225 the open relationship............................. *tiptoes* Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:10:06 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#6bd6fd47-9280-4322-a862-8ed36e6e2225 $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-25T17:10:06Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#e5eba89c-90b8-40fa-a7c2-2003c9879317 yep. Indeed we are constantly fed actually unhealthy ideas of "what is love?" and "How love should be appraoched" that are in reality...an objective one though, is completely insane. "Together forever" are not only current straight molds but aren't even historically accurate. That idea disturbs me. I agree..... our media has fed us some pretty ideas that leave us confused and vulnerable to ourselves. It's funny that i find the television shows on LOGO that depict gay couples who have been together longer than my ass cheeks both Cute and disturbing because it seems we have a "gay model" for how our relationships SHOULD be. The house the car Joint bank accounts The asian baby Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:09:15 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#e5eba89c-90b8-40fa-a7c2-2003c9879317 $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-25T17:09:15Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#93126801-cc24-4e8d-a1ff-124158e84260 ive been looking for so long... and always dumped them after one date and just when ive decided that work and study are more important, some girl that i knew for two hours in a blog gave me his e-mail address, saying i just have to meet him. we just celebrated our 3yearsaversarry you can never tell maybe when you are actively looking for him, youre blocking yourself from finding dont lower your expectations hes out there probably looking for you too Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:48:18 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#93126801-cc24-4e8d-a1ff-124158e84260 raz 2007-02-25T10:48:18Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#cdfb38dc-9ab4-45a8-8872-db19b825fb4a MJK: I agree with your outlook. Also, I want to return to the power of the media and of the overarching "straight" society. We are taught--however subliminally--how we should date, how we should view ourselves and others, and so on. The issue I have with that is who says that as gay men or as lesbians, the same rules apply? I'm of the belief that that is why so many of our gay brothers and sisters are unhappy and bitter because we are being "taught" or influenced by a mainstream society that really doesn't "know" us. We, then, use their model of courtship and culture and try to fit ourselves within that model, so no wonder there is so much frustration because we are men who desire other men or women who desire other women; clearly, not all -- if any -- of the "mainstream" rules apply to us. Subsequently, this is one of the reasons I sort of detached myself from a lot of mainstream media outlets. For example, I do not -- any longer -- watch commercial television because it was subconsciously driving me crazy. However, I must be quick to say that I know that most of us who post our opinions on this platform have strong, mental constitutions and throughout our lives we have played by our own rules; in fact, many of us have written our own playbooks, as it were, but we can't deny that the foundations of our psyche that make up a powerful portion of who we are, are laid with bricks which were baked, pounded and laid with societal rules and mores that were NOT designed for us. Therefore, when we -- as gay men and women -- more fully come to terms with that truth, I think we will be more liberated to the point where courtship (if we want to call it that) becomes something that is designed for us, and not a phenomenon borrowed from mainstream society. Finally, I think we simply need more gay mentorship, and -- once again -- not this sort of borrowing from mainstream society and then embellishing those borrowed goods, as it were, with "gayisms" to make it seem as though they can be easily and normatively transposed. Sun, 25 Feb 2007 07:17:05 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#cdfb38dc-9ab4-45a8-8872-db19b825fb4a Roger 2007-02-25T07:17:05Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#6dfd5284-10a5-4389-9670-fae24726701c Caleb is 21? hmm. yep. You shouldnt worry about dating (this comes from someone in your range who at 21 totally felt let down).... It's true, that when you are say 22 or so... how you relate to people and what you want from them..or need from them, will differ greatly from when you are right on the cusp of 30. Hell, i see it now, as i can see im "adjusting", yet still in the funk of "I don't know Exactly what i want" or "I KNOW what i want but I'm not quite sure if i will ever get it because i dont know how to get it." I notice slowly people sifting into my life who are wrong wrong wrong to teach me what is right..and depending on your personality, you'll figure it out in due time..and get it. Trick is to hold on without trying to, in my opinion. I can say for certain. i think i get the point: MAYBE i'm not at the point where i can foster the SANE and wonderful relationship i WANT to have... but i can be open and sharp about it. Observative and not demanding. I'm chill now. Because not just ANY guy will have my heart... but the face of that guy who could..... i just dont know what he looks like...and i will leave like that. Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:48:06 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#6dfd5284-10a5-4389-9670-fae24726701c $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-24T21:48:06Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#43acfb2f-2d2b-43e8-9e0f-d491175d2322 Caleb: You're only 21, though. You'll experience so much more in your life, so don't you think your current stance might be a bit too premature? With that said, however, I do understand the frustration, but that's the catch with dating and relationships, you just never really know when you'll hit the spot, and trust me, that spiel about "it comes when you least expect" is not always true. I think that seeking love is a noble and wonderful thing. We really shouldn't give up, as taxing is it can get, because we could pass up so many opportunities to meet the right person who is right for us at that moment. Finally, I've found that I have allowed, like another poster mentioned, the media and other stimuli to seep into my consciousness, making me believe that I must fall in love on MY terms: the romance and flowers and the long walks and conversations. THAT would be ideal, but think about it: do we have an ideal body? an ideal intellectual capacity? Do we have an ideal anything? Most of us would say "No", so why was I believing that had to find a perfect, ideal relationship? Frankly, the best relationships are those that start out slowly and kind of blossom, and even if it doesn't last, it is up to us to extract the learning experience and meaning from it. Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:30:17 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#43acfb2f-2d2b-43e8-9e0f-d491175d2322 Roger 2007-02-24T21:30:17Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#fc1b9be1-0c65-45d0-93f3-bf2ef8cec5bb It's gotten to the point where I find the idea of dating pointless. I've had a number of negative experiences with men in the past few years and it's left such a sour tast in my mouth that I began to question whether or not a man can make me happy. It's certainly a bit taxing when you get the impression that you have so little value that you can't even one date, or by extension a series of dates. I used to think it was my physical appearance, but as that's improved dramatically with rigorous diet and excericise it's clearly something deeper. In any case, relationships nor sex will ever make me happy, so dating is a moot point as is the idea of even thinking about pursuing men in the future. So it's gotten to the point where I'm not so much gay as entirely desexualized, if only because I don't intend to seek out any sort of relationship or sexual contact again. Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:22:45 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#fc1b9be1-0c65-45d0-93f3-bf2ef8cec5bb $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-24T02:22:45Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#9245d75a-f1b0-4cc8-8e66-627fcd94ea56 When I was growing up I had the American Dream perfectly realized in my head. I would find someone, get married, have the house with the literal white-picket fence, have the two kids and retire as a professor or something. When I came out I didn't alter that scenario, really. When I had my first major relationship with a guy, I just pasted him in, no questioning of myself or including his opinion. Our relationship didn't last past five years and there were other factors, sure. However, after I was able to get perspective I realized that that dream felt hollow to me; and it really kept me from enjoying life, sex and an authentic relationship. Do I really want to be married? Or, is that the faint whispering of American culture over my shoulder telling me that should be what I want. Did I want kids? Did I want the house? Did I even want to have that kind of job? In the past couple years I have been reevaluating all of that and have found out some surprising things about myself. And, it has been very freeing and has allowed me to enjoy life, and make me less stressed. I joined a rugby team, which I would never have considered. I used to be anti-violence and anti-sports. That doesn't mean that I have changed my mind on state-funding of sports arena or the glorification of violence in American culture. I have learned not to dismiss something just because I have made up some "ideal". And, I have also learned that I don't need a partner, or that I don't even WANT one. Intimacy can occur outside of a traditional relationship. Man or woman, for that matter. I have also learned not to take rejection as a repudiation of my ego. That's not to say that I won't bitch. I am only human. It has been a hard road, and I am glad when someone can come to a calmer place like I have and sooner, hopefully. I still make lots of mistakes, but the endorphins from all the sprinting in rugby make me care a lot less. Cheers, Bradley Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:15:18 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#9245d75a-f1b0-4cc8-8e66-627fcd94ea56 Bradley 2007-02-23T21:15:18Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#0d6537f5-82a9-4f77-8edb-e0a14c48f433 Some guys try to hard. What brought about this topic would be a certain, lovely guy i've met who is a great deal older than. He's handsome, smart...we have awesome conversation... but since the first meeting (i've known him 2 months)...every phone conversation or meet-up... he expresses sentences like: "I know one day i will find a boyfriend. I wonderful man to share my life with." "Well it wasnt like having a boyfriend." "I should have a partner,." "Men arent interested in dating in this town. (SF) I cant find that special one." "Life has been lucky for me. So im sure by the end of this year i will have a partner." Then one night he asked me ,in a wierd way told me: "You are not looking to settle anytime soon. Are you? " I had to think. because i dont like the word settle. and i still am getting to know the fellow..and my life is just ramping up... but i hate the idea of setting anything in stone and creating a relationship rather than just letting friendship and connectivity bloom...and then going from there. Im young and idealistic. But the idea of being a romance technitian is uncomfortable. When he tells me how he misses having a boyfriend when he is sick or tired... i say... "oh how sweet!"...and think he's such a great guy... and i think......... "I gotta let him know right now...we're going to be friends. It's not that i'm not ready...but im not 100% ready ....and I cant move fast at all. He wants "professional" lover." On the otherhand... i meet so many guys who want boyfriends but are terrible with men. Clingy and self obsessesed. I understand human dynamics on that hand. I like the guy. But i'm honest to tell him. "i'm not always on time." because I have pissed off many dates because i arrive like 30 minutes late. It's problem i'm dealing with... and men just dont date. anyhow..my rant. you guys go. Lets explore this. Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:52:47 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#0d6537f5-82a9-4f77-8edb-e0a14c48f433 $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-23T17:52:47Z http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#46ad1a2e-4576-4283-adcc-f31201724703 I personally have reached the decision thats it's not particularly important at this time.. at 24 to really search, worry, obsess, distress or even twitch at being single although being with someone is nice.. but my dating personal philosophy, in the experiences of the past year, questions just how necessary is it to have a partner? Is it healthy to distress over being single? Is it healthy to search? Not to long ago, I was completely hung up on finding...a boyfriend. In my observations amongst my gay friends and aquaintances I single guys get in a panic about being alone while there are Couples who seem to only to be couples in writing and are not monogamous sexual or emotionally... very few are. I wont say whether i believe couples should be monogamous because thats a threshold that varries for every couple and every individual. I will say that it does seem theres "currency" though in being coupled and i find that worrisome..and the love addicts i run into living around a highly queer populated ghetto alarms me to a degree. The idea of love in my eyes can easily become co dependency. Is there pressure, in the gay biome, to be coupled? Certainly if straight america, at least, believes we're all promiscuous and are relationships period aren't valid? What does that do the single gay male? Shouldn't finding relationships...meaningful lasting ones. be organic? Especially since gay men are under the immediate pressure to get married... have children (purposefully or by... "accident" like heterosexuals) and nest? I'd like to explore our collective ideas on Relationships and the various questions and themes above, which are broad. If you are single or coupled, Or feel you NEED someone or don't need anyone... bitter or happy....... how do you feel about the dating scene and culture surounding it? Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:39:00 GMT http://altgays.tribe.net/thread/c87a627a-f162-4dcd-bbf7-9ed786d051a3#46ad1a2e-4576-4283-adcc-f31201724703 $item.owner.firstName 2007-02-23T17:39:00Z