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I'm quite interested to see the responses to this:
Do you care if your partners are poz or not?
If you are Poz....how do you feel about dating negative or other guys who are Poz?
Do you have a prefrence?
It seems like every other guy i meet in the city is POZ. I've said many times before that being in SF for me nowadays is like being in an alternate reality where all that is quuer is amplified. HIV/AIDS being a central concern for many gay and bi men and women, i wonder what the opinions of this tribe are towards issues of disclosure, dating and the impact AIDS/HIV has on your personal life right NOW.
Do you care if your partners are poz or not?
If you are Poz....how do you feel about dating negative or other guys who are Poz?
Do you have a prefrence?
It seems like every other guy i meet in the city is POZ. I've said many times before that being in SF for me nowadays is like being in an alternate reality where all that is quuer is amplified. HIV/AIDS being a central concern for many gay and bi men and women, i wonder what the opinions of this tribe are towards issues of disclosure, dating and the impact AIDS/HIV has on your personal life right NOW.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sun, November 12, 2006 - 6:34 PMI'm HIV and Hep C negative (and am immune to A and B, but I wouldn't push that particular boundary).
Hep C and herpes bother me more than HIV at this point. I'm safe, I demand others be safe, and I just assume that everyone's blood is out to get everyone else's blood. I already have a compromised immune system due to prosthetics and a number of other issues, so if a person has any communicable (non-STD) illness/disease (a slight cold, even), it's a pretty certain thing that I'm going to catch it simply from mouth-to-mouth contact, and that I will be affected by it three or four times longer than were the givers. I have to consider these things.
I believe that if you have an STD that it is your job to say so, but I also believe that if you do or do not have any STDs it is your job to ask. It takes two, and the responsibility for honesty and transparency is equally shared in these encounters. It's not a one-way street.
But, do I really care if my partner/one-night-stand/whatever has HIV? It's a poorly worded question... I care deeply for people, so I definitely care in a very empathetic manner if someone has HIV; it hurts me because it is a real life-changer. That being said, as far as sexual partners go, their HIV status is not of concern to me. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sun, November 12, 2006 - 6:38 PMA bit more, maybe...
A few weeks ago someone planted an unannounced lip-lock (with tongue) on me when I was drinking beer and playing pool. They had tonsilitis. I now have tonsilitis for the second time in my life.
So, HIV? That is so incredibly preventable as to be a non-issue with me. But, those other bugs? It is a crap shoot. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 5:52 AMknowledge is power. i've had sex with several HIV + men, and always played safe. i remain negative, (as of my last test, 2 months ago) and plan on staying that way. i ALWAYS communicate with anyone i choose to share my bed with, and ALWAYS play safe. hell, i used condoms when it was still safe to play naked. i have a foreskin and hate poopie under it. heh. i think that saved me from getting HIV. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 9:40 AMI believe it is the responsibility of both (all) parties involved to disclose their status and make apparent any concerns they might have. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 11:01 AMToday it isn't just the issue of HIV/AIDS there are SO many other bugs out there that as Boyelektric pointed out,discussion of them is paramount before ANY sexual encounter.
Here is a "Partial List" of what's out there waiting to strike the unsuspected/uninformed:
AIDS/HIV(the HIV Virus Itself)
HPV(Human Pappilloma Virus)
Herpes Simplex Virus both 1 and 2
Ghonnoreah
Syphillis
Hepatitis A B and C
hairy Tongue(a viral pappiloma fungus of the Tongue)
Pneumocystus Cariini
Thrush(another viral fungus on the tongue)
Kaposi's Sarcoma
Damn! Kinda makes you think twice about having sex doesn't it?
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 14, 2006 - 11:10 AMI for one do. I am allergic to latex, and can not use them. Even the dentist has to use vinyl gloves in my mouth. So, I have made a rule, I don't play with poz guys. I can't, I have no real way to protect myself. There are other condoms out there, but they have not been independently verified by outside labs. I know that non anal types of sex are just as valid. But I don't even want to risk it. I know guys who only blow other guys with a condom on. Or use a dental dam for rimming. I can't use these things. So I came up my no-poz guys as a response. At least until the other types of condoms/dams etc.. are verified to stop the virus.
AAOO (Sean) -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 9:06 AMLet's hope your partners are being honest.
I simply assume anyone I'm playing with is positive; whether they say yes or no. That way I don't worry about it.
Peace,
Jim
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 8:56 AMJake, your grasp of disease is a bit cloudy. I work for one the NIH-funded Centers for AIDS Research and you are on target in your safe sex message, but you are dispensing mis-information as well. PC and KS are opportunistic infections, most people in developed economies are at no risk for KS or PC unless they HIV. Trush is Candiasis and, again, an opportunistic infection. These are not lurking threats in an of themselvs. You can get vaccinated against Hep A&B. SF DPH routinely funds free Hep A&B vaccine outreachs to the gay, asian and latino communities here and our rates of infection are significantly below the national average. The new HPV vaccine has tremendous efficacy, an unheard rate of almost 99 percent, and is being recommended as a childhood vaccine. Hairy Tongue is another variation of candiasis. People with healthy immune systems do not need to worry about PC, KS (unless they are middle-age men of near easter descent, in which case there seems to be a genetic predispostion to KS)... You also left off Chlamydia and it's new variant, Lymphogranuloma Venereum (LGV).
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 28, 2006 - 5:05 PMjake, that's your first post that didn't turn me on. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 28, 2006 - 6:06 PMSorry Wet Spot
I guess mine can't all be tittilating.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 4:08 PMI hope both of you are being honest with your health" status"( Being forthcoming honest may not pay you off for your relationship but at least you can sleep better at night because you haven't lie to others.) As far as dating game goes, I am really clueless about how you can date others( I really think this health issue should be a major concern but not the soley concern. ) After all, you can never determine whom you fall in love with),right? As for me, I rather know that upfront instead of finding that out later( If I really love my partner, his status may not interfere our relationship. Maybe I am naive at this point. But one thing I know for sure if I date a guy who knows he is HIV poz or has other STD without telling when we first date, I will so pissed off by the time I found out and I will definitely end whatever relationship I have with him for his dishonesty.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 4:18 PMyes. HIV, the Heps, and Herpes are at the top of my list. HIV especially, because despite all the pc propaganda and a few exceptions, it is essentially a death sentence. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 5:17 PMAgain, with misinformation and HIV. It is not PC propaganda Micheal. Epidemiologic data is sufficient to demonstrate an average lifespan of 24 years now (from initial diagnosis of AIDS, not HIV infection. It is, however, exfrickin' expensive, between $600K and $800K over the individual's remaining life. And, there are tremendous health consequences that result from the cocktail regimens (cholesterol levels off the hook, giving HIV+ men the heart profiles of 70 year-old bypass survivors). The next generation of inhibitors (integrase) may stop replication earlier but there are current concerns about molecular level interactions. It is a serious, serious disease requiring tremendous medical intervention and it is still 100% fatal. But so is being born.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 5:43 PMYes, that is why I ring a bell and cry out "unclean! unclean!" whenever entering a public establishment....
No more feeble witticisms, it should be of concern to all playing the sex game.
And to whomever said that HIV is a "death sentence," so is breathing. I'm HIV+ and after a rough initial bout (due to my stupidity that all those "full labs" every year at my annual physical naturally included HIV testing) a couple of years ago, including a bad brain infection and immense loss of weight and strength; noone would know my status unless I tell them. I "look just like anyone else". Isn't that a crappy thing for people to say about someone even if it is well intentioned?
It is a nuisance in my sex life and the expense of drugs. It is a nuisance due to people not wanting to employ me -- more out of concern for health insurance costs for them than HIV phobia, I think or else a false image that I will be having a Bug Chaser Party in my classroom -- I am 45 years old. I have my friends, my family, my writing and a new volunteer job as an editor/writer for a major national progressive PAC. I don't have to ring a bell before I have a meal or a drink or flirt with someone, but if someone is going to be judgemental against my status, then "Adios" is all I have to say to them. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 10:44 AMI have to concur with Neal on this one guys!
I also have been living with full-blown AIDS since 1981 I am healthy(at the moment) and YES I do inform all potential bedmates of my status, in general I have found that HIV neg Gay men don't wish to befreind the infected populous so they all know anyway because we are all in the same status.
To say today that AIDS is a Death Sentence is incorrect. It "Can Be" but for many individuals it can also be a somewhat controlled disease with todays anti-retroviral regimens and it is not an automatic death sentence.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 11:02 AMi consider myself HIV neutral. the fact that even in this day and age anyone would regard HIV as a "death sentence" reveals that there is still way too much AIDS-phobia among queers. it really sucks that sometimes guys who are poz are rejected for being poz.... i'm also amazed at the number of guys who are willing to have bareback sex with a guy who tells them he is "negative"
it's important to me that some of my lovers identify as poz.... and i only know because they told me. i've never asked any of my lovers their status... whether a partner tells me that they are poz or negative i'm still gonna practice safer sex with them: sometimes a person thinks they are negative, but they don't know. the only way to know for sure is go get tested with a lover... and few guys i know seem willing to do that -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 5:19 PMSoo, if you're rich or live in a rich country it is not a death sentence. HIV is not that bad, it is controllable--like psoriasis, or a heart condition. I'm concerned that by minimizing the negative aspects of HIV, a lot of young people will get the wrong idea how debilitationg it can be. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 7:45 PMOkay, here I'm with you Micheal. I fault the drug companies for all the AIDS meds adds that absolutely do not reflect the reality that the drugs are hard on your system. And there are quality of life issues around meds and side effects, and those shouldn't be minimize. And its not like psoriasis or a heart condition. If you misuse, abuse your regimen, resistance can occur. Wild type HIV (depending on the person who infected you) can reassert itself and it is much more virulent. Some of the side effects can be fatal without AIDS being diagnosed.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sun, November 19, 2006 - 4:49 PMas I understand it hiv still transmutes into full-blown aids and kills people. The drugs simply delay the process. Also, the virus as it was contracted in the early 1980's is/was a lot less virulent than the current hiv strain which is far more potent.
The death rate or the manner of death seems to be subteranean to most people's consciousness now i.e. it no longer rates a mention in the general media. The last report in the gay media in my city was that infection rates were on the rise again, mostly amoung younger guys.
Ifecting people with aids is one of the lowest acts a person can commit. Please get tested after any unsafe sex practice, don't cheat on your partners ( and if you do telll them!) and for fuck's sake don't pass it on if you have it! -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sun, November 19, 2006 - 4:52 PMoooops, to answer the question, no I don't care what the status is of my sexual partner, I assume they are poz and if it develops further than sex a poz status wouldn't prevent me from liking or loving that person. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sun, November 19, 2006 - 5:40 PMI am hiv negative. The Berkeley Young Mens Health Study told me I was one of the rare few that have been exposed to it and my body fought it off. I forget what they called it. Basically it's like I'm immune to it. I try play safe anyway. But I hate condoms and sont put a condom on a dick to suck it. I will top without a condom and bottom with one. And yes I have bottomed without one. I like to know my partners status. I will be with someone if they have hiv or not. I have found that alot of positive men will not be with me because they dont want to give it to me. That's commendable but sometimes frustrating. I could be wrong but I tend to disagree with Jake about hiv negative guys not wanting to befriend positive guys. I'm sure there are assholes like that but I like to think they are the exception not the rule. I was sitting in the steamroom at Golds once and these two assholes heard my mechanical heart valve ticking and got all freaked out and moved as far away from me as they could and just stared at me in disgust like I was some freak. I like to think most people are not like that. I use to worry about prolonged heavy kissing and precum and I would go through times where I didnt want to have sex with hiv men. My hiv friends would tell me they didnt think I should either. But then I feel like I will never have sex again because who the fuck doesnt have hiv besides me?!!! I have read in POZ magazine & other places about gift givers and bug chasers. I of course want to remain negative. It is upsetting sometimes though to feel like an outsider or like people look at you differently because youre not poz. Or when they assume you are positive and comment on me being such a slut they assume I'm spreading it without concern. The types that don't believe when you tell them youre negative. Like youre lying. Or if they do believe you they act like your the last negative person on earth and become over protective of me at the Bear Hugg party or wherever. I appreciate concern but I know the rules of the game I've been playing for over 23 years. I started sucking the massive cock-us-maximus when I was 15. YUM!!! I'll never quit! Ha ha ha!!!! <-------evil insane joker laugh : ) -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 10:15 AMI got you beat Marvin
I took my first adult mancock in my mouth at the tender age of 13!...and LOVED it ever since!
I'm not sure why but it has been my personal experience(and mine only) that Hiv Negative Gay Men do Indeed avoid me,so much so that now I don't even pursue anything with the HIV neg Gay Male population. Ive never been a Bug Giver and I inform EVERY possible sexual contact of my Poz Status,yet Ive been repeatedly referred to as a "spreader of my disease" just becuase Iv'e had Hiv since I was 21 years old(29 years). There is quite a growing crowd of Neg Gay Men out there that think they are in some sort of "Hiv Negative Club" becuase they have so far been lucky enough to remain Hiv Negative.This "Club" of their's is becoming as yet another arrogant little Clique among the Gay Community and its pretty Ugly. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 2:08 PMI just can't abide by the HIV-negative group-think that dehumanizes a person because they caught a virus...I don't even understand the mental machinations necessary to dehumanize someone like that.
It's a farging virus! How did viruses suddenly get moral value judgements attached to them? Arggh! Idgits, the lot of them. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 3:29 PMI think that's what makes this disease so difficult. One the one had I am aware of the moral judgements involved with HIV and the way it is contracted ("nasty people doing nasty things"), and want to avoid that slippery slope. On the other hand, if you don't attach some kind of stigma to a behavior (in this case unsafe sex) it is difficult to discourage. I say this because before I met my bf ,I began to increasingly encounter people who rejected me when I wanted to use condoms. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 6:42 PMI have always thought it's fucked up how people judge others too. I have always looked at it as a virus. It's biological. While it's different than the flu or whatever it's not. I tell people if they say some bs to me about hiv that I think is wrong that it's not a judgement from god. That if people get the flu it's not a punishment for sin. It's just the fucking flu. And hiv is just what it is. A virus. Not a fucking thing to do with God. I do believe it was created by men to eradicate undesirables in Africa and globally. Population control that cannot be proved. Sorry to go off topic but I just want to know if anyone here has read Alan Cantwell - Queer Blood or John Rappaports Aids Inc? I'm convinced.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 9:03 AMpeople are afraid, so they try to convince themselves that there is a reason why they couldn't possibly get it. because they're a different kind of person from the people who do get it. straight people tried to do it by saying only gay people get it, black people tried to do it by saying only white people get it, gay people do it by saying only nymphomaniac tweakers get it. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 10:08 AMNo Matthew, there are subpopulations with genetic mechanisms that allow the body to mount an effective resistance to HIV. The population is small, phenomenally small, but it has been documented with rigorous protocols. Research is now focusing on these individuals to find the biomarkers that indicate the ability to recognize the virus before it hijacks the cell-division mechanism and begins inserting its DNA into the host cells. It's not a balm. These individuals do exist. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 11:36 AMI think there's a danger in this.
Those who feel or might KNOW for a fact that they äre "immuned" HIV shouldn't be sittin g pretty.... I don't know too much about the science of Non progressors but there still has to be the risk you could carry it over to someone else. I cant buy HIV being evaporated, totally fought off from the system until it doesnt exist.
and I think Mathew has a point... but I never heard of Blacks saying HIV was a white disease...
"" Blacks "" are dying in huge droves in Africa of this. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 12:41 PMMJ, absolutely there's a danger in any repeat exposure. We don't know how long repeated exposure to hiv, especially in the case of mucousal trauma (and that is both vaginal and anal tissue), occurs before seroconversion. We don't know where in the genetic sequence the neutralizing antibodies (not T-cells) reside. No one should consider themselves immune. There is always the risk of transmission (aka the Typhoid Mary syndrome), but current research indicates a weaker pathogenesis and infection outcome from patients already on the cocktail. However, if the elite controller/non-progressor is treatment naive then there is strong chance the virus is wild-type and could be highly infectious. But, since these patients have such low copies (below 50 ml), it's possible the virus could be overwhelmed in the host and not particularly pushy in terms of transmission.
Matthew is right about the stance of large sections of the African-American community seeing AIDS as a white disease (for decades). Emory U and UAB, both Center peers, have done profiles on the entire down-low phenomena (Did Terry McMillan help??) and how the culture of denial helped percolate the disease through the African-American communities in these regions. Please don't even get me started on Mbeki (South Africa's Prime Minister after Mandela). He has been publicly, repeatedly quoted as dismissing AIDS as a white man's disease.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 4:14 PMright, mbeki doesn't even believe that hiv causes aids.
and lots of groups were in denial about aids in america as well. that's why magic johnson getting it was such a huge deal.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 4:07 PMwhat does that have to do with anything i said?
"No Matthew, there are subpopulations with genetic mechanisms that allow the body to mount an effective resistance to HIV"
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 7:02 PMMarvin, you belong in the elite controller/non-progressors/aggressive suppressors categories. Our center is currently looking at this population for genetic clues to what allows the body to succesfully identify and defend against infection. Consider yourself very, very, very lucky. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 7:15 PMThere is another guy I have seen on tribe that is too. I forget his name. He seems pretty cool and smart too. I don't think I'm all that smart but just know what the Berkeley people told me. I was a part of their study for years and they kept seeing me after I turned 30. They were studying men 21 - 30. I asked why they kept seeing me after I was 30 and they told me because they wanted to continue to study me. But then I moved to Pleasanton and they didnt have my address anymore. I didnt want to drive all the way to SF General for the survey & tests anymore. Even though they give you 30 dollars for about an hour as incentive to continue to participate in the study. If I wasnt poor I wouldnt take it but it was always nice to spend it at the grocery store. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 7:24 PMSteve Deeks is leading the elite suppressors study. They are using people from the SF city clinic and the PHP (at General). I totally understand your reluctance to travel from Pleasanton. However, should you be interested in participating in this new study, hit me up at work and I'll put you in touch with the study coordinator. pcampbell(at)cfar(dot)ucsf(dot)edu. No pressure, but dude you are a genetic gold mine. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, November 20, 2006 - 7:27 PMSuch a gold mine I was born with a bi-cuspid aortic valve. lol I will private you my e-mail.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 2:17 AMHey Mad,
While reading through this String of "Misinformation" and Illusion from EVERY Living Soul Here My Question to you is what Constitutes a ..................................................."STATUS"?
A Combined total of the Following?
*A Dubious Non Specific Positive Antibody test~
*A Non Specific T-cell Count~
* A Viral Load of Non Specific Cellular Debris~
* A Gender Specific Viral Infection~
IF this Is what Contitutes a so-called HIV $tatus then it's all in Vain,
Phillip also Mentioned that Jake was Providing Misinformation about PC and KS being Specifically Opportunistic Infections what He Failed to also say is that so-called HIV Negative People can get all of the Opportunistic Infections Labeled and Defined as AID$.
One More Thing I'ts Interesting the LA Gay Lesbian Center says HIV is a "Gay Disease" and at Another Forum I am dealing with some Quacks that CLAIM AIDS is a "Black Disease"...
I don't think the AID$ Cult can get their THEORIES Straight.
Sincerely
Tomás -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 5:08 PMTomas, for the majority of non-HIV infected people, especially in the western/developed world, KS and PC are non-issues. KS is predominantly a cancer found in middle-eastern middle men (predominantly being the major descriptor). KSHV, like many of the others herpes viruses, exists in most people and is inactive except for those who have a genetic predisposition or are severely immuno-compromised. Same for PC. Healthy adults with strong immune systems will not get PC. PC is found in the frail elderly, very young infants and is rampant across the developing world. They are non-issues for HIV-negative folks. However, for HIV-negative folks with other immunosuppressive conditions, said diseases should be a concern. But that was not part of the status question. From the tone of your questions, would I be incorrect in categorizing you as an AIDS denialist? -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 5:23 PMi think we have to seperate stats from reality. In reality, men do not know if they poz when they are poz because different systems react to different strains in different time lines.
Personally i don't flinch at the thought of contracting HIV if i know i am playing it safe...although theres tons of disinformation concerning being a top and barebacking. I did that ONCE.......... still bothers me.
To Tomas: well............. actually we are still piecing together information. This thread is meant to be one where we share our perspectives....and less of an informational gag fest. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 5:58 PMThis is very, very true!
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 4:37 AMTo Tomas: well............. actually we are still piecing together information. This thread is meant to be one where we share our perspectives....and less of an informational gag fest.
Then.............Follow the Money....
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 1:34 PMThis thread is meant to be one where we share our perspectives................and less of an informational gag fest.
Yet this thread was Started by Mad Jack Kash.....
*I'm quite interested to see the responses to this:
Do you care if your partners are poz or not?*
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Denial is a River...
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 4:35 AMTomas, for the majority of non-HIV infected people, especially in the western/developed world, KS and PC are non-issues.
Phillip There is no Proof of "Infected" or "Non-Infected" People since there is no definitive way of knowing whether ANY human is Infected with HIV..
QUOTE: Rodney M Richards, Independent AIDS Researcher Louisville CO
Yet, after 20 years of research supported by $100 billion in public funds,
we still don't have a have single diagnostic test approved by any government in the
developed world that claims to be able to determine whether or not
any given individual is infected with this deadly virus. This is not a "tiny inconsistency."
It is time for the mainstream research community to stop ignoring this serious
deficiency in AIDS research; and to redirect funds as well as research efforts to
the goal of developing a reliable laboratory test intended for use in diagnosing infection
with this virus. The citizens of this planet, especially those suffering the devastating
consequences of AIDS, deserve such a test.
See Also: 'THE HIDDEN FACTS and DANGERS of HIV tests"
Phillip ALL Opportunist Infections have Treatments and Causes COMPLETELY Unrelated to HIV..
So-called HIV negative People can get the same AID$ Indicator Illnesses..
Phillip Wrote: But that was not part of the status question.
I responded to the FACT that People use Incorrect and Illusionary Terminology for HIV/AIDS "HIV Status" "Status" which again is in vain since there is no Definitive Proof of anyone having a "Status".
Phillip Wrote: From the tone of your questions, would I be incorrect in categorizing you as an AIDS denialist?
People have Categorized me as many things..I have even been categorized as a "Spic" although im Not Latino or Hispanic such derogatory language is no different than me being ACCUSED of Denying AIDS. Most "AIDS RETHINKERS" are often called Names and dismissed as Quacks,"Flat Earthers",Homophobes,Idiots, and the list grows on...
You are entitled to an oppinon Phillip and while I believe AIDS is a "Construct " created by the CDC,NIH,WHO (AID$ Inc) it wouldn't surprise me if you ASSUME Im in Denial because you have a pre-concieved idea what I actually believe.
In Other words you are going to categorize me either way..
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 7:18 AMTomas, you are welcome to believe what ever you wish. But, the earth is not flat, and Rodney Richards is a quack. He and Duesenberg, the major 'legitimate' scientist quoted by scientifically ignorant folk in the AIDS Denialist camp. For the last 8 years clinicians have had extremely accurate detuned assays that measure not only the rate of replication, but the infectivity and strength of the host virus. There is a definitive way of knowing you are infected. You are a dangerous person in your ignorance. By way of disclosure, I work for one of those NIH funded research projects and don't have to quote 'independent' AIDS researchers. HIV research is my day job. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 10:12 AMThanks for your input Phillip
What we have here is a Lame attempt to pretend that AIDS isn't what It IS!
It not only has been documented as a Retrovirus there is a VERY simple accurate test to determine one's HIV Status. AIDS Denialist's are as ignorant and dangerous as any other "Denialist" group.
But then as you said..."some people" still think the World is Flat and the Sun Revolves around it! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 1:03 PMJake My Response to YOU is that I Personally Don't argue with Denialists..
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All Of My Hate Cannot Be Found ~ Korn
MySpace.com/HIVisaLIE
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 1:00 PM{Tomas, you are welcome to believe what ever you wish.}
Is this my chance at 'Grattitude" from YOU?
{But, the earth is not flat, and Rodney Richards is a quack.}
Gallileo was a "DISSIDENT" not a Quack ..the Mainstream $cientific Religious ZEALOTS were the "Flat Earthers" in by doing what MOST OF YOU here will do to save the DOGMATIC DOCTRINES and Save the CHURCH of HIV from the REAL TRUTH.. You are Correct the Earth is not Square,The Moon is not Made of Velveeta and HIV causes Lightening strikes...
Rodney Richards is No Quack he is a "WHISTLE BLOWER" and YOU know it. He Knows that there is ABSOLUTELY NO SUCH THING as an HIV Test or better yet a Test for AID$..
{He and Duesenberg, the major 'legitimate' scientist quoted by scientifically ignorant folk in the AIDS Denialist camp.}
Let's Not Forget The Perth Group.
{For the last 8 years clinicians have had extremely accurate detuned assays that measure not only the rate of replication, but the infectivity and strength of the host virus.}
Let me guess these so called CLINICIANS have HIV in Petri dishes kept in cages? oh and WAL-MART Selling HIV Posters for $3.99?
This is a funny Phenomenon since there again is NO DEFINITIVE Proof,No ORIGINAL ISOLATION Protocol from Montagnier/Gallo.. Montagnier made the Claim "WE DID NOT PURIFY" "WE" Meaning he and Gallo.
{There is a definitive way of knowing you are infected.}
Interesting if you can or will? Counteract the Manufacturer Inserts for the Tests with something that DOESN"T say "NOT INTENDED TO DIAGNOSE HIV IN HUMANS" then post the references to this forum??? PDF files are okay too..
(You are a dangerous person in your ignorance. )
This is a Matter of Oppinion ...The International Church of HIV tried so desperately in the name of 'pocket book" and "the PROBABLE cause of AIDS" to Poison me to my Death and Blame it on a Construct of OLD Familiar Illnesses my Grandmother knew about...Don't tell me about Dangerous ..the crux of the AID$ Establishment has only survived because of a Retrovirus and TOXIC and LETHAL AIDS DRUGS..
DO Keep in Mind Phillip I have access to ALL MAINSTREAM INFORMATION Including the Medical journals and I was a Member of the Church so I keep the Historical Record right along with the same Scientists that you claim are Quacks.
{By way of disclosure, I work for one of those NIH funded research projects and don't have to quote 'independent' AIDS researchers. HIV research is my day job.}
I knew that you were associated with the NIH I read the thread here.. Just Because you are an HIV Researcher doesn't Make you a Magical Being or anymore Superior to me..and I wouldn't trust the CDC or NIH when it comes to Iatrogenocide..or as far as I can Spit them.. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 2:14 PMHIV Fact or Fraud?
One of the most powerful video documentaries of our time boldly reveals the modern medical-industrial complex’s dire descent into utter corruption. This feature-length expose explains exactly how the 300-Billion-dollar AID$ fraud began, why HIV can NOT be the cause of AIDS, what the real causes could be, and who manipulates the public’s good intentions while poisoning hundreds of thousands with toxic drugs that cause the very disease they are supposed to prevent. This is a systematic dissection of the HIV/AID$ machine and how they hijacked a program designed to fight a worldwide plight of human suffering and drove it down the road to hell. Yet this program offers hope, inspired by the courage and articulate arguments of a group of growing voices internationally challenging the HIV=AIDS=DEATH hysteria. A MUST SEE for anyone interested in truly understanding the facts about HIV/AID$.
You will meet a number of highly reputable scientists who all agree that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, including Dr. Peter Duesberg, who was the first scientist to map the genetic structure of retroviruses. He is joined by Nobel Prize winners Dr. Kary Mullis and Dr.Walter Gilbert, along with Dr. David Rasnick, an expert in the field of protease inhibitors.
Is HIV/AIDS the golden idol of junk science?
Judge for yourself. Professionally produced, written and researched, acclaimed by physicians, scientists, journalists and humanitarians internationally, this is the video encyclopedia of HIV/AIDS dissident movement! THE defining documentary on the HIV/AIDS fraud.
www.hiv-aids-factorfraud.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DECONSTRUCTING the MYTH of AIDS
In 1984 we were told that HIV was the cause of AIDS. In his provocative documentary film, “Deconstructing the Myth of AIDS,” Gary Null, ... all » Ph.D., challenges virtually every statement ever made by the American medical industrial complex on the virus - including those of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the National Institute for Health (NIH) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). While presenting the findings of Nobel Prize-winning scientists and leading virologists, the film exposes the political maneuvering, conspiracies and cover-ups that have provided obstacles to the study of this human catastrophe from the start.
While presenting the findings of Nobel Prize-winning scientists and leading virologists, the film exposes the political maneuvering, conspiracies and cover-ups that have provided obstacles to the study of this human catastrophe from the start
For example, there are experts who believe that AIDS is the result of multiple factors, including drug use, stress and nutritional deficiency, but that government agencies made a politically strategic decision to de-emphasize these hypotheses and thus discourage certain researchers and their funding. Meanwhile, AZT, an infamously failed treatment for cancer, and now the primary FDA-approved approach to treating AIDS, is highly toxic and can produce the very symptoms of the illness it is prescribed to treat.
“Deconstructing the Myth of AIDS” goes beyond medicine and science to question the very foundation of our reliance on government bureaucracies where it concerns matters of life and death
video.google.com/videoplay -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 3:33 PMpeople with this attitude and this DISINFORMATION are completely disajointed from the crisis in Africa. It's completely disgusting. nuff said. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 4:49 PM>> people with this attitude and this DISINFORMATION
>> are completely disajointed from the crisis in Africa.
oh really?? i'm betting that you're probably gonna be really surprised by the content on the ACT-UP (AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power) San Francisco web page regarding "AIDS" in Africa :
www.actupsf.com/aids/africa/index.htm -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 4:22 PMPoint of clarification. ACT-UP had a schism here in SF quite a few years ago.
The AIDS denialists kept the legal rights to "ACT-UP SF". They have a nice business providing medical marijuanna prescribed to folks with AIDS (which they deny exists).
The folks who acknowledge a relationship between HIV and AIDS became "ACT-UP GoldenGate" then changed their name to "Survive AIDS" to avoid confusion, abandoning the ACT-UP name to "ACT-UP SF" www.actupny.org/indexfolder/actupgg.html -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:53 PMthanks Selma!
i was unaware of the schism and history behind it....
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 9:59 PMMad, Do you realize that after the Hyptnotic Spell that MTV,BET,CNN,FOX,NY TIMES, and all Other Propaganda induced Media hypes repeat the phrase "The Virus that Causes AIDS" it's all Brainwash smoke and Mirrors.. People like you RUN from Information because the FEAR has Been so Instilled and Programmed into your Brain that if you LOSE HIV you have Nothing else to blame.
Just Like Galileo who said to the $cientific Religious Quacks LOOK at MY EVIDENCE to the see that the Earth is "ROUND" and Instead they replied "Nuff Said! We cannot deny our faith" and they excommunicated Galileo..so the Flat Earthers to date Still MAINTAIN the Arrogance of NOT Denying their Faith.. The great HIV Myth is worshipped at every opportunity.
honestdoctor.org/images/do...tement.pdf
honestdoctor.org/images/do...states.pdf
www.healtoronto.com/nih/
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Parrot Plagiarism is a Problem...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 12:57 PMTomas, if you are going to continue to copy-and-paste the words of others, you need to include quotation marks and cite them. If you want to play in the world of science, this is one of the rules. Otherwise, leave the science to those who know how to question it and then test their questions honestly.
If you want any reputation that may still partially exist in your general vicinity to remain intact, you need to stop plagiarizing the words of others as your own. I'm deeply disappointed by your intellectual dishonesty in this matter.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 2:23 PMWhat I am about to say, I know will upset some people. But I have to speak my truth. Before I do, however, I must say that my previous post (the one about being allergic to latex), is true. I wrote the above because I thought it might be socially acceptable. But after reading the hoo-haa in this thread, I thought I should pull out the big guns.
And what I have to say is this: I am also one of the immune to HIV. Completely. There are different types of immunity, one type is: someone has an aggressive immune system, but it costs immunological energy to fight it off. The other type is: one lacks the receptor sites that HIV needs to plug into. This doesn’t cost the immune system anything to fight off.
I am of the later type. In addition, I have a molecular control over my body. This is the product of many (20+) years of metaphysical training. I can do shit you wouldn’t believe. I choose to be allergic to latex. Mostly, because of what it represents. That is a barrier, in the most intimate part of our lives. Fuck that. I won’t do it. HIV to me is an entity. Like everything else. I can be in a room with someone who is poz, and feel it try to get into me. I send it on its way. Also, I bareback, and I feel the same thing. Either way, I send it on its way.
Many of you will outright reject this as “new age hokum”. But, I am DOING it, and have done so for many years. I am Neg, and will continue to be so…because I choose to be. HIV is not a teaching path I have chosen for myself this time around on the wheel.
I must qualify the above with this; it takes many years of training to get to the Atomic Level of control, and nothing I say is to promote someone saying “I won’t get it”. To be able to reject at will what one will or wont get is a process, usually many, many years in the making.
But I had to put this out there. I am a Magi of the Melchizidekian Flavor, and I directly experience all of which I speak of.
I write this in the hopes, that someone will spare themselves the manifestation of HIV. If you want to start your own training on this sort of control over your body, ask. Just know that it goes beyond things like HIV, and in fact one must be in touch with even the tiniest working of one’s mind.
Also, this is written in love and respect, and in no way do I denigrate those who are infected.
Peace and Love,
AAOO(Sean)
www.startantra.com
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 10:09 PM(I am also one of the immune to HIV.)
Isn't that what a Positive Antibody test means? Immunity.
How is that you KNOW you are IMMUNE to the Retrovirus REFFERED TO as HIV if there is No Definitive Proof that Humans host it?
What about hundreds of OTHER Retroviruses that the Human Body generates by DNA?
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 6:45 AM<Jake my response to YOU is I personally don't argue with Denialist's>
So Toma's am I to presume you think that I am an AIDS Denialist?
The Problem with this is the fact I am LIVING WITH full-blown AIDS and have been since diagnosed with it in 1982.
How then Toma's...does that make me an "AIDS Denialist"?
The websites with all the "HIV doesn't cuase AIDS crap in them,and no test for viral load and "The Myth that is HIV/AIDS" are all Propaganda sites,and frightened people read them as FACT and then sit back and breathe a sigh of relief believing that HIV/AIDS is a Fantasy.
Hey Dude..I wish it WERE. Before our Gay Community starts putting out blogs denying the existence of AIDS and promoting it as Government Fraud,perhaps one should talk to a member of the Gay community LIVING with it.
WAKE UP Denialist's...HIV and AIDS is as real as it gets! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 11:50 PMAgain Jake I DO NOT Argue with AID$ DENIALI$T$.. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:25 AMOk, Tomas, how about people who actually study viruses in the real world, then? Let's get specific about RNA retroviruses and what they are all about...we don't have to talk about those icky diseases that have scared all those dollar sign$ into your posts...
Just viruses and things like reverse transcriptase and ELIZA and Western Blot, and a bunch of cutting-edge and NEW tests using fluoroscopy and all sorts of other neat scientific advances (since 1984).
It is kind of cool to see how virology has progressed in the last 22 years... Want to talk about it?
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 8:32 AMThis post shows you and gnats have the same grasp of cellular and microbiology.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:27 AMRetroviruses cannot (by definition) be generated by DNA.
Your ignorance just lifted its skirts a bit...
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 5:14 PMI am a little distressed to learn that you would will your body to allow an auto-immune response that ultimately leads to death...over something as silly as latex. Certainly, at the atomic level, things like this become meaningless, no? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:24 AM"I am a little distressed to learn that you would will your body to allow an auto-immune response that ultimately leads to death...over something as silly as latex. Certainly, at the atomic level, things like this become meaningless, no?"
That's a matter of perspective, Wally.
Personally, I'm a little distressed that you'd expose some of your favorite parts of your body to hundreds of toxins and dozens of allergens and carcinogens, over something as silly as a virus that Bob Gallo faked his alleged "discovery" of in 1984.
But unlike you people in the orthodoxy, I'M not about to tell YOU how you should live your life. My position, as always, is that you should investigate the facts to your own satisfaction, and make your own decision with your own eyes wide open. Both of us having done so, why should the fact that we disagree mean that YOU should have the right to tell ME what chemicals I expose my body to? If you don't like the fact that I'm poz and I don't use condoms, then don't have sex with me. It's as simple as that.
However, in 29 states in the US, I could potentially be locked up for doing just that, despite the fact that I don't have sex with anyone who isn't aware of my alleged HIV status, and who doesn't agree that the risk is insignificant. (Incidentally, after literally thousands of sexual contacts with a small handful of people whom I've maintained friendships with since we had sex, NOT A SINGLE ONE has ever seroconverted.)
Now, earlier, you came down on Tomas for calling you guys Nazis, but in those 29 states, 99% of the people who are being locked up for having sex while HIV-positive are black males, and in the majority of cases, they're accused of sleeping with white women. Things that make you go "HMMMM..."
--- Gos
P.S. 4 proofs, Wally. Your boys at the CDC have had 22 years and hundreds of billion$ of my taxpayer dollars to establish them, and as the high and mighty scientist that you are, if these proofs exist, I'm sure you'd know where to find them.
And again, Wally, before you repeat for the 47th time that you already satisfied #2 and #4, let me say again: The photos you posted earlier contained very few actual micrographs, and out of those few, NOT ONE was of actual viral isolate, since the images contained >99% whole cells and intracellular debris without a single shred of proof that the remainder was actual HIV (other than a caption saying so), and that flouroscopic test you posted a link to was a screening test, not a diagnostic test. The literature plainly states that it must be confirmed by ELISA and WB (two unverified tests themselves). Nice try, but not even close. Try again. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:07 PM" Personally, I'm a little distressed that you'd expose some of your favorite parts of your body to hundreds of toxins and dozens of allergens and carcinogens, over something as silly as a virus that Bob Gallo faked his alleged "discovery" of in 1984. "
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So, you don't live in a house or ever travel in automobiles...or eat anything in the Brassicaceae family...
Gallo and Latex... beautiful non sequiteur...
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:15 PMGos, your 4-proofs stance is all well and good, but I've given you my stance on it and that is it. It is not my problem that you cannot accept my answer, that you disagree with my answer, and that you are incapable of replying to someone's post without adding seventy different additional subjects and then demanding answers...
I didn't tell anyone they should use a rubber. I merely expressed my concern about a specific part of a person's posting about latex...yet you turned it into... Well, you turned it into... Look, I'm really working overtime trying to be nice to you, but really, you've concocted an amazing pile of bullshit out of the topic of "latex allergy" and my concern about that.
So, hammer away, but I've told you my stand on your "4-proofs _challenge_," and I am not going to waste my time trying to convince the people who already have their minds made up. No answer I will ever give you will satisfy you -- you've made that abundanty clear. Now, ask yourself why anyone would waste their time on you given the knowledge that you will only accept answers that you believe in... -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 5:15 PM<<So, hammer away, but I've told you my stand on your "4-proofs _challenge_," ...>>
Are you still yammering away about that??? I let you off that hook yesterday, seeing that you obviously couldn't answer even one of those.
I've offered you a much easier out already. Name ONE Nobel laureate among your precious orthodox AIDS researchers. ONE. That's something that I won't be able to dispute if you do it. It's unambiguous, and not in any way subject to interpretation. Name ONE non-dissident AIDS researcher who has won the Nobel Prize. Surely, if they've saved so many people from the dread scourge of AID$, there should be many. Name ONE.
--- Gos
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 8:31 AMTomas, no it's not an attempt at gratitude. You are ignorant and dangerous. Duesenberg has been discredited for years. And you can keep screaming dissident and whistleblower all you like, it doesn't make you right. And yes, my education and training and access to experts and actual experiments do give me the right to make judgments better informed than your half-baked psuedo-science. Science is careful, methods-based work. It must be reproducible by independent labs and peer reviewed. All of the scientists you have named are imbeciles whose scientific careers were ended by shoddy science and irreproducible results. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 8:51 AMI think part of the issue here has to do with the fact that among some who consider themselves 'alternative' it has become almost an article of faith to oppose modern medicine. There are good reasons to distrust the AMA profit driven health care industry.
However on balance modern medicine has done more good than harm. Our knowledge that some disease is caused by germs led to the practice of public sanitation. When we practice sanitation rates of disease transmission fall. The use of condoms does prevent the transmission of HIV.
Part of the problem has to do with the failure to teach science in our schools. I think we see that reflected in the debate about teaching evolution as a proven fact. IMHO if we give equal time to any creation myth in science class then we should also give equal time to the theory that storks deliver new born babies. But I digress.
Science is just a way to figure out how the world works. As the late Carl Sagan said, "Science can be a candle in the dark" -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 12:05 AMHowever on balance modern medicine has done more good than harm.
The Pharmeceutical Industry Markets directly to consumers NOW in their OWN Living room..They Make Up Illnesses Just to $ale the most Popular drug of the day...Most of the so-called "SIDE EFFECTS are ACTUALLY Illnesses caused by theses TOXIC Drugs..Clinical Trials Show for each drug and I can't see where there is any Good from the Pharmeceutical Industry.
The use of condoms does prevent the transmission of HIV.
DO you have A SPECIFIC REFERENCE to this Claim???????? PDF Files are Okay. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 12:23 AMTomas, I'm about as Anti-capitalist as one can get but I read your posts and have to ask myself have you ever been friends or lovers with a person who has been sick or died of HIV/AIDS? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 6:16 AM{I read your posts and have to ask myself have you ever been friends or lovers with a person who has been sick or died of HIV/AIDS?}
Mick is this a TRICK Question?
Keep In Mind I Am an HIV Dissident... My Mainstream HIV~AIDS Terminology has been Deconstructed I Opened My Eyes within My Own Medical Records..The TRUTH Will Set You Free!
my Answer to You is YES. I Have seen friends Sick and some die in the name of "The PROBABLE Cause of AIDS"
I Myself was Suppose to be dead ALREADY three years ago According Mainstream AID$ Doctrines..I was Never Sick and had the Surprise of testing Negative,Indeterminate{ neg} and Positive..
Little was I told By the AID$ Establishment that the DNA Twisting TOXIC Lethal AIDS Drugs and the Well Known Carcinogen AZT that I was taking at the Time was somehow Prolonging My Life and yet Causing SEVERE Anemia and Neuropathy two things Listed in the Drug Disclaimers as Side effects..Not HIV Specific Illnesses..
My Friends from the Past Lie in Hospital Beds with Liquid AZT flowing through their veins and while I believed in the HIV Myth Religiously I think back today how the AID$ Establishment MURDERED them.
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ALL OF MY HATE CANNOT BE FOUND ~ KORN
MySpace.com/HIVisaLIE
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 5:58 AMThomas, I am referring to the availability of modern medications NOT the pharmaceutical industry. Millions of people benefit everyday because of antibiotics alone. I am not going to defend the profit driven nature of the medical establishment, but I do defend modern medicine. There are other forms of medicine and people are free to choose those other forms. My opinion is that modern medicine has saved more lives than all other forms of medicine combined over all of history. The problem comes from the fact that modern medicine's main goal is profit. We need socialized medicine. And yes I would support including alternative medicine in a future national health care plan.
I don't have a specific reference about condom use and HIV transmission rates, but in locations like Seattle the infection rates seem to get lower when more people are practicing safe sex. I hope you are not suggesting that we stop using condoms. The stakes are too high to be risking lives because of pseudoscience that denies the fact of HIV. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 6:30 AM{I don't have a specific reference about condom use and HIV transmission rates, ................... I hope you are not suggesting that we stop using condoms.}
Then Why Do you Promote the Condom Industry "Safe Sex" Campaign?
If I were to Post Do Not use Condoms because they are Toxic and Cannot Block any Viral Particles or block Bacterium such as Syphylis would you take my word for it or research my Claims?
If YOU Believe Condoms Protect people and are safe then there ya go....
Condom Research is No Secret..it's all up to YOU. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 6:44 AM"Then Why Do you Promote the Condom Industry "Safe Sex" Campaign?"
Please do not put words in my mouth. I advocate the use of condoms, that does not mean I endorse any industry sales campaign. At this point in our history the only condoms available are produced by private-for profit companies. Condoms should be free and paid for by the government. Think how many condoms could be produced just by the millions of dollars spent in one day on occupying Iraq.
Thomas, your anger is totally justified, but the problem is not that a conspiracy is behind the AIDS crisis. The problem is a government and health care system that puts the profits of a few before the needs of the many. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 7:13 AMAMEN. The sad part about listening to the "AIDS Dissidents" is the fact that far too many of them are now dead because they refuse to take medicine that does prolong human life. Christine Maggiore, leader of the LA cult refused to give her child HIV meds after she tested postive and her daughter died at age 3.Even after it's been proven that taking the meds cuts down the mother to daughter transmission of HIV.
While a mix of alternative therapies and regular medicine seems to work for many millions of people. Condoms work for those who use them.Recommending that a person who is doing well on their HAART regimen stop due to HIV politics is dumb and irresponsible, especially when you are not a doctor. You have your own truth, live it, but let everyone else live their own lives in a healthy manner. If you are still alive in 12 years even after no HAART therapy more power too you. Until then leave the preachin' for the church.
www.aidstruth.org -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 7:13 PMTIMOTHY WROTE: {The sad part about listening to the "AIDS Dissidents" is the fact that far too many of them are now dead because they refuse to take medicine that does prolong human life}
Thats an Interesting Statement Timothy but if you read the Disclaimers for these So-called Miracle Drugs THAT ARE SUPPOSE to Prolong life we read:
"EPIVIR (NRTI):
LACTIC ACIDOSIS,SEVERE HEPATOMEGALY,(IRS) Immune Reconstitution Syndrome,Fat Redistribution,Stomatitis,Hyperglycemia,SEVERE Anemias,Muscle Weakness,Parasthesia,Peripheral Neuropathy,Abnormal Breathing,Alopecia,Rash,Weakness,Peripheral Wasting,Facial Wasting...
{Patients Should Be Informed...That Anti-Retroviral Therapy and Long term Health Effects are NOT KNOWN AT THIS TIME.}
(Pdf Page # 11.)
us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_epivir.pdf
{Christine Maggiore, leader of the LA cult refused to give her child HIV meds after she tested postive and her daughter died at age 3.}
Timothy Hopefully Christine sues the QUACKY AID$ Truther's for SLANDER...Perhaps YOU have the HIV Test for the Little girl that is REQUIRED to Determine a so called AIDS diagnosis or anything related to HIV and AIDS? such as Pneumonia..
there are Updates and Responses at www.QUESTIONAIDS.org AND RETHINKINGAIDS.com/ if you'd like to AVOID Slanderous Comments about Christine and Her family.
{Even after it's been proven that taking the meds cuts down the mother to daughter transmission of HIV.}
So called Anti-Retrovirals Cause More Problems than HIV is Claimed to cause.. and Since Dr Gallo and Dr Montagnier NEVER Purified LAV/HTLVIII(HIV) "Mother To Daughter"Transmission is Moot.
MD does not Signify Medical Deity and people have a right to be educated on the Epidemiological facts..No one has to be under MIND CONTROL even in HIV Land.
www.LIVINGWITHOUTHIVDRUGS.com -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:19 AMThomas,
Go read the warnings for Ibuprofen and tylenol... Your case-by-example is a fallacy argument with no basis in science. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 9:33 AMWally I Know how you guys like to "SPOON FEED THE GAY COMMUNITY" a Load of B$..
I wasn't Talking about "Over the Counter Medications" I was SPECIFICALLY talking about YOUR so-called LIFE SAVING HIV DRUGS.
The Fallacy is where you try to CHANGE THE SUBJECT ..... Tylenol Versus Epivir ..Furthermore All Drugs have a Disclaimer it's Not Surprising that you use $CIENCE at YOUR OWN Personal Convienience. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:11 PM" Wally I Know how you guys like to "SPOON FEED THE GAY COMMUNITY" a Load of B$.. "
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Actually, in regards to me you know nothing of the sort. Nice ad hominem, though.
" I wasn't Talking about "Over the Counter Medications" I was SPECIFICALLY talking about YOUR so-called LIFE SAVING HIV DRUGS. "
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Hey, drugs are drugs and pharmaceutical companies make ALL drugs. You don't get to bleep-out the information that you don't like just so you can make your own point spicier in the absence of REAL information. Tylenol kills more people every year than all of the HIV drugs combined. Pharmaceutical companies make more money on asthma and tuberculosis than HIV/AIDS. These are facts, not fiction. Look it up, because I'm certain you likely won't believe it unless it comes from one of your anti-HIV Gods.
" The Fallacy is where you try to CHANGE THE SUBJECT ..... Tylenol Versus Epivir ..Furthermore All Drugs have a Disclaimer it's Not Surprising that you use $CIENCE at YOUR OWN Personal Convienience. "
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The subject you brought up was DRUGS. If talking about DRUGS is somehow changing the subject, then the "Personal Convencience" liability is your own. My use of science is consistent and documentable. Yours is copy-and-paste. Why should I trust you when all of your sources are obscured and discredited? What special thing do you bring to the table that bears real fruit in the light of the scientific method?
Cough, boy... I'll wait.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 1, 2006 - 11:47 PMTomas, no it's not an attempt at gratitude. You are ignorant and dangerous.
Of Course YOU think im Dangerous Phillip when it comes to YOUR Bank Account..IM a SERIOUS Threat to you and the BIG Dollar $ign.
Duesenberg has been discredited for years.
Doctor PETER DUESBERG was Discredited for the Same reason >>>>The Big Dollar $ign..also Phillip you may want to be assured Im a PERTH Dissident although I RESPECT Professor Duesberg alot.
And you can keep screaming dissident and whistleblower all you like, it doesn't make you right.
If YOU couldn't SCREAM DENIAL any Louder here...
And yes, my education and training and access to experts and actual experiments do give me the right to make judgments better informed than your half-baked psuedo-science.
All of the Epidemiological Data Taken together Counteracts anything you Try to even REMOTELY call $cience.
Science is careful, methods-based work. It must be reproducible by independent labs and peer reviewed.
There are Over 100,000 Papers Written on the Pathetic HIV retrovirus and the Economic Powers of the Church of HIV Surpress these INCONSISTENCIES in AID$ $cience in the Media and Cultic Members such as yourself do well in the Iatrogenic depletion of the Gay Community...$hame on you. The Eminent Dr Robert Gallo was up for $cientific Misconduct....PLEASE TELL THE FORUM HERE WHY....Don't lie tell the TRUTH.
All of the scientists you have named are imbeciles whose scientific careers were ended by shoddy science and irreproducible results.
I haven't Named Anyone other than the Perth Group however for some reason you keep bringing up "DUESENBERG"..and My Last Post was a Challenge to YOU what happend? did I STUMP you or do you have NO PROOF of the DUBIOUS HIV ANTIBODY Tests?
By the way.... Dr Gallo in my Oppinion Should rot in Hell. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:16 AMTomas, you're not threat to me or anything related to my pocket book.
The only person you are _truly_ a threat to is yourself and anyone who would believe your pseudo-science of death.
Duesberg has never been involved in HIV/AIDS research, and has never been involved with any group that actually treats patients who have HIV/AIDS. He is an ignorant biochemist who thinks that his system of rules applies to the entire universe without adaptation for circumstances.
Why don't you tell me what Duesberg has been studying for the last ten years? Can you find it? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 9:44 AMTomas, you're not threat to me or anything related to my pocket book.
Good.. "The HIV Believer's Creed" Prevails.
The only person you are _truly_ a threat to is yourself and anyone who would believe your pseudo-science of death.
I am Not a Scientist or a Doctor however Doctors have been given the Award for Being the Third Leading Cause of Death..IATROGENOCIDE..
Duesberg has never been involved in HIV/AIDS research, and has never been involved with any group that actually treats patients who have HIV/AIDS. He is an ignorant biochemist who thinks that his system of rules applies to the entire universe without adaptation for circumstances.
www.DUESBERG.com
I think YOU'RE Infatuated with him at Least he believes that HIV can leap tall buildings?
Why don't you tell me what Duesberg has been studying for the last ten years? Can you find it?
I am Sure we can Send an Email or perhaps phone Him.. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:15 PMYou have yet to ask me what I believe. Your post is a monument to the power of prejudice and viral-theology fundamentalism...but I don't actually know about you, personally -- only your post.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 5:48 AMPhillip Wrote:
{Science is careful, methods-based work. It must be reproducible by independent labs and peer reviewed.}
Quote From Alive & Well ..www.QUESTIONAIDS.com
On April 23, 1984, Gallo called an international press conference in conjunction with the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). He used this forum to announce his discovery of a new retrovirus described as "the [probable] cause of AIDS." Although Gallo presented no evidence to support his tentative assumption, the HHS immediately characterized it as "another miracle of American medicine...the triumph of science over a dreaded disease." (16)
Later that same day, Gallo filed a patent for the antibody test now known as the "AIDS test." By the following day, The New York Times had turned Gallo's proposal into a certainty with front page news of "the virus that causes AIDS," and all funding for research into other possible causes of AIDS came to an abrupt halt. (17)
By announcing his hypothesis to the media without providing substantiating data,
Gallo violated a fundamental rule of the scientific process. Researchers must first publish evidence for a hypothesis in a medical or scientific journal, and document the research or experiments that were used to construct it.
Experts then examine and debate the hypothesis, and attempt to duplicate the original experiments to confirm or refute the original findings. Any new hypothesis must stand up to the scrutiny of peer review and must be verified by successful experiments before it can be considered a reasonable theory.
In the case of HIV, Gallo announced an unconfirmed hypothesis to the media who reported his idea as if it were an established fact, inciting government officials to launch new public health policies based on the unsubstantiated notion of an AIDS virus. Some attribute these violations of the scientific process to the atmosphere of terror and desperation that surrounded the notion of an infectious epidemic.
Mainstream AIDS Journalist JOHN CREWDSON Wrote in his Book:
A SCIENTIFIC MYSTERY, A MASSIVE COVER-UP, AND
THE DARK LEGACY OF ROBERT GALLO
www.SCIENCEFICTIONS.net
Possible Misconduct Is Seen In Discovery of AIDS Virus
By PHILIP J. HILTS, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
[Published: October 6, 1990]
A statement from the institutes said a preliminary inquiry into research on the AIDS virus at the laboratory had exonerated Dr. Gallo in some respects. But a spokesman, Donald M. Ralbovsky, said the beginning of a formal investigation meant that ''evidence has been found of possible misconduct'' in other aspects of work in Dr. Gallo's laboratory.
Data Appeared to Be Missing
The independent panel, after reviewing the evidence produced by health institutes investigators, wrote in a letter to Dr. Raub in June: ''Some data appeared to be missing from the data books. There is a possibility of selection and/or misrepresentation of data. There is a need for the panel to plan experiments on the viral samples.''
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html
"WE DID NOT PURIFY" ~ Dr Luc Montagnier
A CRITIQUE OF THE MONTAGNIER EVIDENCE FOR THE AIDS/HIV HYPOTHESIS
www.theperthgroup.com/SCIPAPE...MONT.pdf
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ALL OF MY HATE CANNOT BE FOUND~ Korn
MySpace.com/HIVisaLIE
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:10 AMTomas,
Since 1984, the HIV virus HAS been positively imaged and identified. It has been documented as a human immune system destroyer based upon its observed behaviors.
The "HIV/AIDS test" you so casually dismiss is not a test that was created out of the blue just for HIV/AIDS... No, in fact that test is also used for many other viruses...Oh, say, polio, leukemia, influenza, etc...and everyone knows and trusts that test for everything...but the Perth group (of which not a single member is actually a medical doctor involved in HIV/AIDS research and paitient treatment...the majority of them are biochemists) would have everyone believe what you have been duped into believing.
So, bring on the links...I eat people like Papadopolous and Duesberg for midnight snacks...
When you can accurately, and without any copying and pasting from virusmyth.com, explain how an RNA retrovirus reproduces (and actually understand what you are talking about) then give me a yell. Meanwhile, the information from the Perth group, Duesburg, virusmyth.com, and others has killed many of my good friends. I cannot in good conscience allow you to make your assertions without hard proof, and things from before 1994 are NOT proof...science has advanced, and the Perth group is still a bunch of ignorant biochemists who hate gay people. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 10:13 AMSince 1984, the HIV virus HAS been positively imaged and identified. It has been documented as a human immune system destroyer based upon its observed behaviors.
HI VIRUS VIRUS? isn't that HIVV? something we haven't been told yet?
The NIH has even Reckognized the Sloppy $cience of Meglamaniac Dr Gallo and Dr Luc Montagnier has even confirmed that so-called HIV was NEVER Purified... No Scientist in the world has ever Extracted HIV from Human Beings. What they are CLAIMING is HIV is some laboratory Phenomenon. This is Why Dubious HIV (Non Specific A N T I B O D Y) Tests have No Universal Gold Standard and HIV Clinics have to use a Series of Antibody tests to confirm the other ones.
ALL CLAIMS to HIV ISOLATION to date are NON Specific and have NO ORIGINAL ISOLATION PROTOCOL.
The "HIV/AIDS test" you so casually dismiss is not a test that was created out of the blue just for HIV/AIDS...
EVEN MAINSTREAM AID$ Apologists AGREE that there is No Such thing as a test for AIDS.
No, in fact that test is also used for many other viruses...
Oh Really?
Then YOU HAVE JUST CONFIRMED that I was Lied to by the AIDS Establishment ! I was Told that I was Getting an "HIV test" in 97 not a "VIRUS TEST" Perhaps this should be investigated further and we can BEGIN a MASSIVE CLASS ACTION..
Oh, say, polio, leukemia, influenza, etc...and everyone knows and trusts that test for everything.
It's Interesting you brought these up because the Medical Journals list over 70 other Viral Antibody responses that can Cause "FALSE POSITIVE" Results... 100 % of the Time...and you are not winning me over here Wally...
..but the Perth group (of which not a single member is actually a medical doctor involved in HIV/AIDS research and paitient treatment...the majority of them are biochemists) would have everyone believe what you have been duped into believing.
So let me get this STRAIGHT ACCORDING TO YOU PERSONALLY ANYONE who dare Questions the Authority of HIV and AID$ Politics is not Welcome?
So, bring on the links...I eat people like Papadopolous and Duesberg for midnight snacks...
I Personally Believe that YOU are looking for some Athesitical Approach to HIV/AIDS... The FEAR of LOSING HIV $CARES the Hell outta ya!
When you can accurately, and without any copying and pasting from virusmyth.com,
I WILL COPY AND PASTE ANYTHING,ANYTIME,ANYWHERE, You got that?
explain how an RNA retrovirus reproduces (and actually understand what you are talking about) then give me a yell.
Meanwhile, the information from the Perth group, Duesburg, virusmyth.com, and others has killed many of my good friends. I cannot in good conscience allow you to make your assertions without hard proof, and things from before 1994 are NOT proof...science has advanced, and the Perth group is still a bunch of ignorant biochemists who hate gay people.
I can't believe how you Rant and Whine...this is Surprising.
* THE AID$ ESTABLISHMENT MURDERED OVER 300,000 Gay Men with AZT* and you call me Denialist. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:23 PMGood god, you know nothing about me, yet you are willing to assume the moon! Dude, get a grip. You called me on "changing the subject" when you were talking about drugs and then I talked about even more drugs...but you go into a rant about "HIVV," and somehow that is _NOT_ changing the subject? Word games are for children. Grow up.
Time has passed since Gallo and Montagnier. Not only are they old news, they are old science. The state of the art passed them, and if you are still using them as examples, then you have allowed yourself to remain in the dark ages of science as well. I pity you, but I do not hate you.
Why do you persist in one-case-proves-all fallacy arguments? Your test somehow proves my experience? Explain. Do you even know the name(s) of the test(s) they used? Do you know how said tests work? Let's just stick with the basics and not run away with the farm for fear of a chicken egg hatching...
If you can't stick with the basics in this discussion, then there is no reason to expect that you will truly understand the big picture once we start discussing that. For now, let's talk about RNA retroviruses and how you believe they are created from DNA (you did say that in this very topic)... How does that happen? Explain, I want to learn.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 11:36 PMNow as I write this, I’m putting Love behind it.
Tomas’ came across some knowledge he wanted to share. However his method of delivering the message, he comes across as a very passionate man that cares, more then anyone wants to acknowledge. Simply said: we should start focusing on healing ourselves, and releasing this ‘beast’ of hiv off our backs by, ‘rethinking,’ a new thought. So what’s wrong with thinking new again? To whose advantage is it to hold on to hiv and aids, like a vise? Okay, the belief is, there may be evidence to prove existence of hiv in a dish, but in order to prove it, you’ve got to create the medical evidence that says it is so; even if there’s no scientific evidence that supports it’s double standards. How can someone be positive in one country, yet be negative if they move to another?
aids organizations say hiv is a deadly virus that would destroy it’s host. People reappraising hiv say it’s a harmless retrovirus, and is not pass on by sex.
I ask; if it’s such a deadly virus, then to what advantage would it be for a virus to totally destroy its’ host. So to be living, a virus has to be inside something that is living. And to what advantage is it for the virus to kill its’ host, if it’s objective is to live, by default. Retroviruses were never known to kill cells, any true biochemist can attest to this. This is where religious fanatics got the idea that it was Gods’ punishment for homosexuals, that a killer virus was unleashed from God upon gay people. I would think that the information the reappraisers of the hiv=aids paradigm, would be just what the larger gay community would need to prove religious zealots were incorrect.
A virus is simple strains of DNA covered by a double light protein sheet; nothing but pieces of dead broken up cells, and/or an organism that contains genes and a few chemicals. It is self defeating for a virus to kill its’ host, or else it dies along with it. It’s the same as the virus walking on Earth – humans. We’ve finally realized that it is not to our advantage to destroy the living organism Earth, or else, we destroy ourselves. Isn’t it to our advantage to ensure the safety of the Earth? Well, a harmless human virus would want to do the same for its host. This is totally different from someone destroying their immune by the wanton over excretion of drugs (prescribed or street), and/or stress related matters. These are your killers of the immune system.
A choice was made to get a second opinion, and that opinion serves Tomas and others, who chose an alternative, and by that, ensuring that others may be informed of the other view so as to make a better choice. Based on what he has re-learned, accepted and applied; an alternative to healing and letting go of the paradigm has become his focus, and the more he seeks out alternative knowledge, the better he and others of the reappraisal of hiv are expressing their right to freedom of choice, and in most cases, alerting others that there is more to the what they’ve been told. Mainstream medicine (today) is not about healing people anymore, it has been incessant in maintaining dis-ease, not curing people because; there just isn’t any money in curing people any more. It’s about maintaining, holding on to the problem. Billions of dollars later with nothing coming of it but more toxic-drugs, and hospices where family/friends can lament over the eve-of-death; people want something more concrete then just saying abstain from sex or wear a rubber. I refuse to underestimate the ability of the human mind, because I’ve observed man/woman creation destruction, and I’ve observed man/woman create heaven on Earth.
Phillip, were you shown a picture of the virus that is said to have been isolated or, did you extrapolate the virus from the cell of a human yourself? Not a condescending question; just asking. I would like to know how can anyone obtained something, that has never been properly isolated by the very scientist and chemist who made the claim that hiv is the ‘probable’ cause of aids.
Jake if you consider yourself the poster boy of full-blown aids, then again, that too is our choice, because by the choices you made, you’ve ‘accepted’ yourself as only identifying with your body and not willing, to at least, consider the ‘wealth-of-health’ by which, another view has put been put forth, that may give you something to live for. I believe someone in another ‘tribe’ mentioned to you something to the effect; who wants to die alone. Again, it’s a choice, and no one can force you to do otherwise. But keep in mind that if you choice to accept only what you’ve been told and not reconsider another alternative --- which is what this tribe implies --- then by all means, so be it. Choice: Long live the existentialist.
This tribe is called ‘Alternative Gay People.’ With that in mind, attacking another’ alternative view and wisdom, goes contrary to the very title of this tribe. Alternative is being and thinking out of the ‘mainstream,’ one would think. Alternative Gay People applies that you’re not of the same pragmatic set mind or practices or lifestyle of the typical gay community, but are unlimited in your views, and another side. It’s one of the reasons I joined. I think Tomas is at least upholding the title of being alternative because he is providing and has been consistent in offering an ‘alternative’ reality about sex and health.
Have any of you heard the phrase?- “Do not throw pearls before swine.” Do any of you know the wisdom behind that statement? Its’ meaning (to me) is do not waste your time trying to enlighten fools who only want to wallow in their own limitations, slush, victimization and diseases. Do not try to put forth wealth that is liberating, before those, who attack you for doing all that you can to pull one out of there own mud. It also means not to throw over a duplicitous (double-dealing, deceitful) situation with pearls of refinements.
Drug companies, whether we like them or not, have one thing in common: the bottom line is to make money, that’s just the way they are, and the can invent the chemist to back up their protocol. There is nothing positive or negative about that ---- its just business as usual, without regards to whose hurt from the use of their products. When a company offers another organization top dollars to attract potential people into participating in a drug study and trail, it’s up to that organization to do all that it can to met the bottom line with the drug companies by, convincing people they have a particular ailment and that these drugs are the way out, regardless of the destructive side effects, but then again, its also business as usual for the organizations.
But while the aids organizations claims that their methods are to save lives, not one life has been saved yet. A promise of prolonging a life on chemotherapy-drugs is not saving a life either.
So….what harm would it be to try and do further research about the reappraisers findings. Could it be that the aids organizations, WHO, CDC, NHI, might unwillingly change their minds, and then, would have to face the public and say they were incorrect? Just because a scientist chooses to research his or her material more thoroughly before setting off an alarm across the globe, and not go along with the rest of the fellahs, it doesn’t make him or her a quack. An alarm with off, people got scared, and by that time; everyone was willing to accept anything the health officials dished out. And we all followed without questioning. We accepted the medias interpretations, saw our friends dropping dead, and freaked. No one knew that a large dose of chemotherapy drugs was being given to these men. We saw these horrors with our eyes and thought it to be the depleting of the immune system, from having sex. There where other scientist who where desperately trying to calm people down by saying, ‘seeing is not always believing.’ But nobody wanted to hear that. We were scared, and wanted our government and health officials to do something now! So is it possible through our fear (at that time) we rushed into a ‘belief’ and didn’t get the full story?
So….back to the original question. Do you care if a partner is poz or not? Here’s one> Would you date a guy if you knew he is reappraising hiv?
Hmmm, I've just written another blog entry
Terry -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:57 AMSo, Terry, are you a devotee of Duesberg, the Perth Group, or Papadopolous?
Yes or No will suffice. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 12:48 PMWally, answer to your question of being a 'Devotee', meaning: a follower, aficionado, fan, addict, ? No! -I follow no man, and no body. Because that's no different then following a religious concept. But based on my observation, I'm beginning to observe how the hiv paradigm is becoming more like a religion to worship 'the virus' then to exercise it out of the minds of people. It's as if, if you don't follow along with the congregation (that being questioning the church of the WHO, CDC, NIH, and what the other hiv organizations say )and don't accept 'hiv' as your lord and master, you are then label a heretic.
I listen to how my own inner voice guides me in regards to makding sound right choices based on 'sound right knowledge.' I weigh both, and apply what it benefical to me, and toss out any thing that may be detrimental to my wellness. So, looking at an other's views (no matter how outrageous others may deem the informatino to be), has neither been a positive or negative for me. I just know what works for me and what is, and everything else supports my new and accepted truth:-)
Now as far as looking around and observing the illnesses and complications of others, if I have something that may be of benefit to their wellness, I will offer it up, if they refuse it, that's their choice, and I can only observe the outcome of their choise and beliefs made; well correction, they will observe the outcome of their choices. I'm not hear to change anyones mind, I'm only offering and presenting an 'idea,' another way of looking at the same picture.
Peace,
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:18 PMTo me, as a scientist, it is interesting that anyone would choose to make this multifaceted subject into some kind of polar argument where you are either in Camp "A," or you are in Camp "B," and both camps are diametrically-opposed.
Honestly, there are more sides to this than "HIV exists" and "HIV does not exist." More sides than "HIV causes AIDS" and "HIV does not cause AIDS." The paradigm problem begins with the two-sided paradigm problem. Tomas fails to grasp that (well, that is the way he comes across...I have yet to actually see him do anything but copy-and-paste the words and canned ideas of others without citing them...Google is a powerful tool for unearthing plagiarism, eh?).
So, while you come across as well-considered, Tomas comes across as a knee-jerk reactionary who, instead of asking questions has all the answers, and who, instead of finding out what people believe simply tells them what they believe and then attacks the mock-up he's created out of his own fear/anger...
The information I have posted runs the gamut...from outright belief in HIV as a causative agent to AIDS, to outright questioning how it is that HIV could cause AIDS. I always wonder why folks like Tomas make me out to be on one side when I am actually presenting a spectrum of information.
In the end, everyone has to choose their own path. I only hope that the paths people choose do not harm them or cause their early demise. I've seen too much of that kind of thing to let it go without comment...and not just with viruses, but planes, boats, etc...
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:01 AMI'll also make the point right now...
"Alternative" does NOT mean quack science. I noticed you don't have even the beginning of an inkling of the start of an idea about how RNA retroviruses work, nor about their highly-evolved defensive mechanisms.
In short, I'll patiently wait to find out if you are a Duesberg / virusmyth devotee... -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:23 AMProfessor Peter Duesberg one of the BIG NIH Funded Scientists who Mapped the Genes of Retroviruses..
He Questioned the Evil Quack Robert Gallo and so Did the NIH themselves..
Retroviruses have No cell killing Mechanisms
Again I wouldn't Trust the NIH or CDC as Far as I can Spit them!
"Alternative" loses it's meaning and Definition Just Like everything else in HIV Land..
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ALL OF MY HATE CANNOT BE FOUND~ KORN
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 3:01 AMDuesberg has never mapped a gene in his life. Get a grip. Accreditation by association is pure folly.
Retroviruses...so, the flu is no longer dangerous? Goodness...
Alternative is a word you use, not me. All you've managed to do is to copy and paste info from other sites, and not very much of that information has its basis in facts.
If you ever get to the point where you actually understand the underlying processes and principles behind that which you deny, please feel free to start talking about them. I'm all ears. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 10:23 AMDuesberg has never mapped a gene in his life. Get a grip. Accreditation by association is pure folly.
www.DUESBERG.com Next you'll say he was never associated with the NIH too...I think you two NEED to Schedule Afternoon tea.
Retroviruses...so, the flu is no longer dangerous? Goodness...
The Flu should be Treated as the Flu and with Flu Medications NOT TOXIC DNA CHAIN TERMINATORS and Protease Inhibitors.. Geesh..
Alternative is a word you use, not me.
This is the Name of this Forum! geeeeee wizzzzzz Are you sure you have credentials or even an IQ?
All you've managed to do is to copy and paste info from other sites,
I WILL CONTINUE TO COPY AND PASTE..Get Over It.
not very much of that information has its basis in facts.
YOUR EARTH IS LOOKING PRETTY FLAT Wally...
If you ever get to the point where you actually understand the underlying processes and principles behind that which you deny, please feel free to start talking about them. I'm all ears.
I am beginning to Question if you are even worthy at this point..
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:48 PMNo, I won't be saying that Duesberg was never associated with the NIH, because he was. Only, he was never involved in mapping genes...especially not of the HIV virus. It is sad that in order to hide the lie you distract with an ad hominem-based change of subject.
Oh, and if you go to my site (www.wallywilsonknowsthetruth.com) you will instantly see that everything I've said is the truth there... (sarcasm) duesberg.com...what a laugh-riiot you are...
Viruses should be treated according to how they present themselves. Pretending that one standard exists for the proving of all of Retroviridae is the pinnacle of ignorance. Papadopulos made that very claim, though, and you seem to take issue with me when I point that out.
Let's start there, and we can work our way down your laundry list of straw men...
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 3:04 AMHere is the REAL world...
1. Dissent is good and drives research in honest directions, and it also drives competition -- which brings break-thru's on occasion.
2. Putting all of your eggs in the Papadopulos/Duesberg basket is risky, especially if you do so and decide that safe sex is no longer necessary because HIV does not cause AIDS.
3. The assertions of Peter Duesberg and Eleni Papadopulos and Bryan J. Ellison that HIV does not cause AIDS are still UNPROVEN. Even they won't go out on a limb to say they are 100% correct... If you read their remarks carefully, this will begin to stick out like a sore thumb.
4. No matter what causes AIDS, the sheer weight of years of empirical evidence does show that HIV/AIDS infections do directly correlate with unprotected sex, shared needles, and bodily fluid transfers. This fact is not being disputed by any of your heroes (Peter Duesberg, Eleni Papadopulos, Brian J. Ellison, et al).
5. The message you are giving is that HIV/AIDS is a myth, and the unspoken conclusion is that worrying about getting it is unnecessary as long as you DON'T take the drugs. This is irresponsible in the extreme, and you should be reminding people about the importance of safe sex (see #4). -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 11:08 AMHere is the REAL world...
1. Dissent is good and drives research in honest directions, and it also drives competition -- which brings break-thru's on occasion.
"The Best Form of Patriotism is Dissent" ~ Thomas Jefferson .....however those who Question the X`Treme Gaping Holes in the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis are Belittled as Quacks, Flat Earthers(Although Galileo was a Dissident)Homophobes,Idiots.. and ARE NOT WELCOMED.
2. Putting all of your eggs in the Papadopulos/Duesberg basket is risky, especially if you do so and decide that safe sex is no longer necessary because HIV does not cause AIDS.
Putting ALL of YOUR EGGS in the Name of the P R O B A B L E Cause Of AID$ RE$EARCH Will Certainly Have you IN LIFE THREATENING SITUATIONS And Supreme MIND CONTROL. The Economic Powers of the CHURCH of HIV wouldn't have it any other way...Just ask BILL GATES.
3. The assertions of Peter Duesberg and Eleni Papadopulos and Bryan J. Ellison that HIV does not cause AIDS are still UNPROVEN. Even they won't go out on a limb to say they are 100% correct... If you read their remarks carefully, this will begin to stick out like a sore thumb.
Just in time for World AIDS Day: Three new studies and a journal
articleall authored by mainstream researchers that question popular ideas and
conventional thinking about HIV and AIDS, from your friends at Alive & Well.
===
The Failure of Viral Load Tests
JAMA Study Shakes AIDS Science, Angers HIV Advocates
A nationwide team of orthodox AIDS researchers led by doctors Benigno
Rodriguez and Michael Lederman of Case Western Reserve University in
Cleveland are disputing the value of viral load testsa standard used since
1996 to assess health, predict progression to disease, and grant
approval to new AIDS drugsafter their study of 2,800 HIV positives concluded
viral load measures failed in more than 90% of cases to predict or
explain immune status.
Published in the September 27, 2006 issue of the Journal of the
American Medical Association (JAMA), the findings by Rodriguez et al shake the
foundation of the past decade of AIDS science to its core, inciting
skepticism and anger among many HIV adherents.
Belief in viral load spread quickly following the 1996 publication of a
paper in the journal Science authored by Dr John Mellors and colleagues
at the University of Pittsburgh. Mellor et al claimed that numbers
produced by the viral load test could accurately predict progression to
disease in HIV positives. Soon, use of this new technology extended far
beyond conclusions drawn by the study and its approval by the FDA as a
prognostic tool.
Claiming viral load numbers corresponded to actual amounts of
infectious virus, scientists used the test as a glib response to unanswered
questions about how HIV could cause AIDS (Its the virus, stupid!).
Pharmaceutical companies jumped on the bandwagon, using changes in viral load
numbers in place of actual health or survival benefits to gain FDA
approval of highly toxic protease inhibitors, a primary ingredient of todays
HAART. Treatment advocates began using viral load to encourage healthy
HIV positives with unhealthy numbers to hit early and hard with the
newly approved drugs, while AIDS doctors throughout the world started
using viral load for everything from diagnosing illness to confirming HIV
infection.
The new uses for viral load emerged and gained popular acceptance
despite the fact that, according to manufacturers literature, the viral load
test is not intended to be used as a screening test for HIV or as a
diagnostic to confirm the presence of HIV infection.
In a September 29th news article regarding the Rodriguez study, Mellors
announced he doesn't agree with the paper at all, insisting that viral
load is the most powerful predictor of time to AIDS and death." Some
AIDS rethinkers note that in defending his opinion, Mellors describes
viral load as powerful, an adjective frequently found in the headlines of
AIDS drug ads--drugs approved for use based on their ability to affect
viral load numbers rather than to produce clinical health benefits or
increase survival.
While Mellors and others protest or down play the significance of the
JAMA article, Rodriguez's group stands by its conclusion that viral load
is only able to predict progression to disease in 4% to 6% of
HIV-positives studied, challenging much of the basis for current AIDS science
and treatment policy.
For further information see: Cohen J. Study says HIV blood levels don't
predict immune decline. Science 313(5795):1868, 2006; Rodriquez B,
Sethi AK, Cheruvu VK, et al. Predictive value of plasma HIV RNA level on
rate of CD4 T-cell decline in untreated HIV infection. JAMA
296(12):1498-506, 2006
===
New Study Questions Reliability of T Cell Counts Finds HIV Negatives
with AIDS Defining Numbers
Following the news that viral load is not an accurate method of
assessing or predicting immune status comes word from the Journal of
Infectious Diseases that T cell counts may be less reliable measures of immune
competence than previously believed.
A study in Africa conducted by the World Health Organization (WHO)
revealed that HIV negative populations can have T cell counts below 350, a
number that would, according to WHO guidelines, qualify for an AIDS
diagnosis in HIV positive populations. Another surprising conclusion from
the same WHO
study: HIV positives that started AIDS drug treatment with low T cell
counts had the same survival outcomes as HIV positives that began
treatment with high T cell counts.
Check out the conundrums in this November 11 2006 article from New
Scientist found online at
www.newscientist.com/article...rly.html
Are We Prescribing HIV Drugs Properly?
In cash-starved regions of the world, deciding who should get
anti-retroviral drugs for HIV is a tough call. Now it seems that one of the main
tools for making that decision may be less reliable than it appeared.
World Health Organization guidelines recommend starting anti-retroviral
drugs when someone's CD4 cell count has fallen below 350 cells per
microlitre, an indicator of HIV infection, or for people with symptoms of
AIDS whose CD4 count has dropped to below 200.
Brian Williams of the WHO and his colleagues studied HIV-positive and
HIV-negative populations in eight African countries including Ethiopia,
South Africa, Uganda and Zambia. They found that between 3 and 5 per
cent of HIV-negative people had CD4 counts below 350.
What's more, when people with low pre-infection cell counts did
contract HIV, and received anti-retrovirals, they survived for about nine
years - the same as people with high counts (Journal of Infectious
Diseases, vol 194, p 1450).
The new findings call into question just how much we understand about
CD4 cells and their interaction with HIV, says Williams. "Generally, if
you have high CD4 counts you can be considered to be doing pretty well
and if you have very low counts, you're in trouble," says Williams.
But CD4 counts can vary a lot naturally so if you follow the WHO
guidelines to the letter, then some people started on anti-retrovirals would
not even be infected with HIV, he concludes.
===
Lancet Study Challenges Claims about HAART Treatment Does Not = Life
The surprising conclusion from a recent study published in the medical
journal, The Lancet: After starting treatment with HARRT, viral
response improved but such improvement has not translated into a decrease in
mortality.
The multi-center study reported in The Lancet article tracked the
effects of HAART on some 22,000 previously treatment naove HIV positives
between 1995 and 2003 at 12 locations in Europe and the USA. Instead of
finding data that provide a ringing endorsement of anti-HIV drug therapy,
the studys results refute popular claims that the newer anti-HIV meds
extend life or improve health.
Commenting on the article, Felix de Fries of Study Group AIDS-Therapy
in Zurich, Switzerland had this to say: The Lancet study shows that
after a short period of time, HAART treatment led to increases in precisely
those opportunistic infections that define AIDSfrom fungal infections
of the lungs, skin and intestines to various mycobacterial infections.
De Fries also notes that while HAART has led to no sustained increases
in CD4 counts, no reduction in AIDS-defining illness and no decrease in
mortality rates, its use is associated with a list of serious adverse
events including cardiovascular disease, lipodystrophy, lactacidosis,
liver and kidney failure, osteoporosis, thyroid dysfunction, neuropathy,
and non-AIDS cancers among users.
For more information, please refer to The Lancet, issue 368:451-58
and/or The Study Group AIDS-Therapy by telephone or fax at 0041 44 401 34
24 or by email at felix.defries@tele2.ch
===
Journal Article Advocates Radical Approach to AIDS Prevention Questions
Popular Ideas about HIV in Africa
Excerpted from
www.health-e.org.za/news/article.php
Taking a swipe at those who try to blame sexual behaviour for the
rampant HIV epidemic in southern Africa, Professor Eileen Stillwaggon says
that they are caught up in "exotic notions" about Africans. Instead,
AIDS prevention efforts will be more successful if they focus on
"biological and socio-economic factors" that can be addressed relatively easily
and cheaply, she argues persuasively in the latest edition of Africa
Policy Journal.
"Differences in sexual behaviour cannot explain 50-fold differences in
HIV prevalence around the world," writes the economics professor from
Gettysburg College. "Yet global AIDS policy relies almost entirely on
behavioural interventions - abstinence or condoms - for HIV prevention.
Southern Africa's very high AIDS rate has been a source of much
speculation. President Thabo Mbeki has been the most vocal proponent for
poverty to be put on the global AIDS agenda, and has also condemned Western
notions of African sexuality in the context of AIDS.
Stillwaggon is no AIDS denialist, but she doesn't mince words when she
condemns those who propose that changing sexual behaviour is the main
solution to Africa's AIDS epidemic. "Policymakers seem to be convinced
(without evidence) that Africans are having more sex than Americans.
They do not ask why US college campuses, where rates of chlamydia and
genital herpes are as high as 30 to 40 percent, do not have high rates of
HIV." She argues compelling for a return to "the fundamental causes" of
the raid spread of AIDS in poor countries - biological and
socio-economic factors.
As far as biology is concerned, says Stillwaggon, the immune systems of
people in southern Africa are weakened by malnutrition and parasitic
illnesses. Malnutrition - a deficiency of energy, protein and minerals
such as iron, zinc and vitamins - makes a person far more susceptible to
infectious and parasitic diseases. These deficiencies make it hard for
new cells to be built, including CD4 cells that protect the body from
infections.
"A malnourished, parasite-laden population gives rise to a very
different epidemic dynamics from that of a healthier population, but models
used by the major AIDS organisations do not take this into
consideration," says Stillwater. Instead, she says, they use a "one-size-fits-all"
approach based on behaviour change that ignores factors that make poor
people especially vulnerable. The easier, cheaper approach would be to
address nutritional deficiencies and parasite infections.
Stillwaggon's approach is a radical departure from the norm, and offers
fresh solutions to AIDS prevention where the decades-old mantra of
"abstain, be faithful and condomise" has been unable to stop the spread.
===
AIDS and the Ecology of Poverty
More on Stillwaggons ideas from the Oxford University Press web site:
www.us.oup.com/us/catalog...elopmental/
Why does AIDS policy ignore much of what is known about epidemics and
why they spread? HIV/AIDS flourishes where people are dying of myriad
other diseases that are almost unknown among affluent populations. In her
book "AIDS and the Ecology of Poverty," Eileen Stillwaggon draws on
conventional epidemiology, which recognizes that people who are
malnourished, burdened with parasites and infectious diseases, and who lack
access to medical care are vulnerable to other diseases, regardless of
whether they are transmitted by air, water, food, or sexual contact.
HIV/AIDS is no exception.
This book delivers a telling critique of the behavioral explanation of
epidemic AIDS and the stereotypes that lie beneath it. It also shows
how the methodologies applied in recent epidemiology and health economics
are based on a one-risk-fits-all model that ignores the greater
vulnerability of poor people and gives rise to policies that are narrow,
shortsighted, and dead-end.
Stillwaggon combines the insights of economics and biology to explain
the epidemic spread of HIV/AIDS in poor populations in developing and
transition countries. Drawing on a wealth of scientific evidence, the
author demonstrates that the HIV/AIDS epidemic cannot be stopped in
isolation. She offers pragmatic solutions to economic, social, and health
problems that beset poor populations and contribute to the spread of
HIV/AIDS.
===
New Web Sites
Former State Senator Stephen Davis just launched two new web sites,
both designed specifically as starting points for people whove tested HIV
positive to help them begin to explore the other side of AIDS.
www.HelpForHIV.com offers a gentle introduction to the concept
that test results may be wrong and provides supporting scientific
literature. The site includes links to 50 podcasts featuring recorded
interviews with various dissident experts, along with links to videos,
scientific papers and newspaper and magazine articles dealing specifically
with HIV tests and AIDS drugs. The site also lists books, links to all
AIDS rethinking websites and blogs, and has a questionnaire people can
fill out to help build a database for future legal action.
The second new site www.livingwithouthivdrugs.com/ archives a
growing collection of true-life stories of HIV positives living healthy
and happy lives without HIV medications.
Davis plans to promote HelpForHIV.com in the coming weeks and months
through blogs and chat rooms, radio interviews, Google and Yahoo ads, and
if all goes well, some TV spots. Davis says, My hope is that these new
websites can attract a large number of HIV positives and help them
learn the truth about the HIV tests and HIV drugs, creating a powerful
community of support at the grassroots level.
===
Not So New Web Sites Worth A Second Look
- Theres a whole new links page at the Alive & Well web site enabling
visitors to find new science and medical information, lots of health
resources and more. Check it out at www.aliveandwell.org
- Visit aras.ab.ca to find new links to recent articles on
topics ranging from the AIDS drug tenofovir to routine HIV testing and
several new pieces inspired by Celia Farber's March 2006 article in Harpers
magazine, AIDS and the Corruption of Science.
- Dont miss the new Challenges page at the Rethinking AIDS web site,
which features a collection of informative and entertaining exchanges
with AIDS and other medical experts on a variety of related subjects.
See www.rethinkingaids.com/Challe...ex.html
4. No matter what causes AIDS, the sheer weight of years of empirical evidence does show that HIV/AIDS infections do directly correlate with unprotected sex, shared needles, and bodily fluid transfers. This fact is not being disputed by any of your heroes (Peter Duesberg, Eleni Papadopulos, Brian J. Ellison, et al).
The PERTH GROUP
The view of The Perth Group is that the HIV/AIDS experts have not proven:
1. The existence of a unique, exogenously acquired retrovirus, HIV.
2. The "HIV" antibody tests are specific for "HIV" infection.
3. The HIV theory of AIDS, that is, that HIV causes acquired immune deficiency (destruction of T4 lymphocytes=AID) or that AID leads to the development of the clinical syndrome AIDS.
4. The "HIV genome", (RNA or DNA) originates in a unique, exogenously acquired infectious retroviral particle.
5. HIV/AIDS is infectious, either by blood, blood products or sexual intercourse.
6. Mother to child transmission of a retrovirus HIV or its inhibition with AZT or nevirapine.
The Perth Group has argued:
1. The impossibility of haemophiliacs acquiring HIV following factor VIII infusions.
2. That AIDS and all the phenomena inferred as "HIV" are induced by changes in cellular redox brought about by the oxidative nature of substances and exposures common to all the AIDS risk groups and to the cells used in the "culture" and "isolation" of "HIV".
3. That AIDS will not spread outside the original risk groups.
4. That the cessation of exposure to oxidants and/or use of anti-oxidants will improve the outcome of AIDS patients.
5. That the pharmacological data prove AZT cannot kill "HIV" and AZT is toxic to all cells and may cause some cases of AIDS.
Does the Perth Group really believe HIV does not exist?
The Perth Group does not broker beliefs and has never claimed HIV does not exist. (Neither have we claimed AIDS does not exist although we and our colleagues are often referred to as "AIDS Denialists"). What we have argued on numerous occasions in our publications and presentations is there is no proof that a retrovirus HIV does exist. Not in test-tubes, not in AIDS patients and not in anyone who is "HIV" positive. We freely concede that our assertion may be wrong but to date no HIV expert has responded with any argument that has convinced us otherwise. There is a tradition in science that those who propose theories provide the proof. According to this tradition it is up to the HIV protagonists to come up with proof that HIV does exist. A scientist cannot employ the "Martian" argument. That Martians exist because there is no proof they do not exist. It is our long held view that the laboratory phenomena documented by Montagnier and Gallo in Science in 1983/84 (which are still the best papers on this particular topic) are not specific for retroviruses and do not constitute proof of isolation of a retrovirus. In regard to Montagnier's "discovery of HIV"
PETER DUESBERG
He isolated the first cancer gene through his work on retroviruses in 1970, and mapped the genetic structure of these viruses. This, and his subsequent work in the same field, resulted in his election to the National Academy of Sciences in 1986. He is also the recipient of a seven-year Outstanding Investigator Grant from the National Institutes of Health.
The HIV-AIDS Hypothesis: 16 Predictions Versus the Facts
Adapted from: Duesberg, P. H., Koehnlein, C., and Rasnick, D. 2003. The chemical bases of the various AIDS epidemics: recreational drugs, anti-viral chemotherapy and malnutrition. J. Biosci. 28:383–412, Table 4.
All quotes are from The Durban Declaration, the most authoritative edition of the HIV-AIDS hypothesis to date, which was signed “by over 5000 people, including Nobel prizewinners” and published in Nature in 2000 (The Durban Declaration. 2000. Nature 406:15-16.). Numbers in parentheses are for the references given at the end of the text.
www.rethinkaids.com/body.cfm
5. The message you are giving is that HIV/AIDS is a myth, and the unspoken conclusion is that worrying about getting it is unnecessary as long as you DON'T take the drugs. This is irresponsible in the extreme, and you should be reminding people about the importance of safe sex (see #4).
The hazardous condom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 4, 2001
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Former U.S. Congressman Tom A. Coburn, M.D., ran a tank through the propaganda of condom safety in a recent press release he issued entitled "Safe Sex Myth Exposed by Scientific Report."
The spectacular evidence of condom dangers came from a report co-sponsored by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).
The high-ranking scientific panel considered data on only eight of roughly 25 widespread STD's: HIV, chancroid, genital herpes, human papillomavirus (HPV), gonorrhea, syphilis, trichomoniasis and chlamydia.
For decades the CDC, Planned Parenthood, the Sex Information and Education Council of the United States and the rest of the sex-education cartel have sworn kids could be safely sexy and confident when rolling on their stylish rubbers. Sure.
The panel reported, however, that after millions of tax dollars were spent for decades of sex-education programs, posters, lectures, plays and documentaries promoting their use, condoms are a toxic STD prophylactic.
Dr. Hal Wallis, a spokesman for the Physicians Consortium of over 2,000 medical doctors and healthcare professionals, noted that the NIH report "proves that abstinence, not condoms, must be the focus of federal health efforts," adding that "the entire public health model developed by the CDC … is a lie."
Dr. Coborn is livid. He charged that the CDC violated the law he authored (Public Law 106-554) compelling all federally-funded organizations to supply "medically accurate information regarding the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of condoms in preventing" HPV and other STDs.
No health agency has released a guesstimate of how many children and adults, operating their condoms by the book, have died based on the health establishment's bogus condom claims.
For, it turns out that while STD infections are a principal cause of women's sterility, chronic disease and early death, condoms afford girls and women categorically no protection from seven of the eight STD's studied, even when used faultlessly 100 percent of the time.
Condoms may curb gonorrhea in heterosexual intercourse – but only for men!
And even the claim that condoms often hinder HIV/AIDS is questionable. Here are a few reasons seldom mentioned:
The scientific panel studied data from several small groups of heterosexual couples, with one partner an AIDS carrier – the longest follow-up study being three years. Allegedly, if condoms are applied without fail in normal vaginal intercourse, approximately 15 out of each 100 uninfected partners will get HIV annually.
However, there is no information on how often these "couples" actually did the "marital act."
And, for those folks who engage in various sodomies, NIH gave no clues on rates of condom breakage and slippage. So, the data clearly void condom "security" for homosexual participants.
Also relevant, condom safety claims may be killing girls and women en masse. Condoms do not stop genital HPV, the most common STD. Said Dr. Coborn, "every year, 15,000 cases of cervical cancer are diagnosed and 5,000 women die of the disease. Hundreds of thousands of other women will be diagnosed and treated for pre-cancerous condition. HPV is the cause of nearly all cervical cancer and has also been linked to prostate, anal and oral cancer."
So, sexual disease results from promoting sexual license and concealing condom dangers.
Since 1950, Kinseyan sexuality advocates have promoted the importance of sexual freedom. On that simple-minded basis, American laws were altered to push child "education" in sex, via "safe sex" condom mastery.
But, they lied.
So, hold on to your hats folks. Look for possibly thousands of lawsuits coming down the expressway. Planned right, these should make the tobacco debacle look like a Victorian ladies tea as teachers, school systems, the CDC, Planned Parenthood, SIECUS, etc., are sued for wrongful death, "false claims," "contributing to the delinquency of minors," and scores of other criminal violations of law.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Judith Reisman is president of the Institute for Media Education and is the author of "Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences."
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
ALL OF MY HATE CANNOT BE FOUND ~ KORN
www.MySapce.com/HIVisaLIE -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:51 PMSo, you don't actually discuss what you claim to have learned and claim to know...you copy-and-paste the words of others like some little parrot...
Again, let's go back to discussing how an RNA retrovirus is manufactured from the DNA of a body's cells. You posted that was the case, and I'm waiting to hear your explanation of how that can happen, and the ramifications it poses for the HIV virus.
Let's take some small steps before we really get into the meat of the subject...it makes DISCUSSION much more productive.
I'll wait...
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 3:09 AM"Retroviruses have No cell killing Mechanisms "
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Why would a virus that uses the host cell to reproduce its own genetic material go and kill that cell? It needs that cell so it can bud and reproduce. The reality is that in order for HIV to be able to do its reproduction, it has to fool the body into ignoring its own immune system responses...no killing of cells necessary when opportunistic infections will do the job quite nicely...
That is why it is referred to as a human immuno virus... Go figure, eh?
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Unsu...
What do you know...the HIV virus in living color... How'd that happen?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 11:58 AMwww.aids.org/atn/a-356-06.html
Answering the AIDS Denialists: Is AIDS Real?
Here are some outstanding references to material and images of the HIV virus (dept of redundancy dept):
www.rkm.com.au/VIRUS/HIV/index.html
www.rkm.com.au/VIRUS/HIV/...ucture.html
www.ibcp.fr/IFR/affiches/Darlix1.pdf
jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/75/14/6682
jvi.asm.org/cgi/reprint/75/14/6682.pdf (same but actual PDF article, see pg. 6683)
jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/...75/14/6682/F1 (ohmygoshsomephotos)
www.virology.net/Big_Virol...retro.html (ohmygoshsomemorephotos)
Information on crystallography:
www.bioxray.dk/~mok/o-files.html -
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Re: What do you know...the HIV virus in living color... How'd that happen?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 10:52 AMPersonalized Results 1 - 10 of about 1,260,000 for Pic of SHERLOCK HOLMES (0.18 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 5,480,000 for Pic of SANTA CLAUSE (0.25 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 1,210,000 for Pic of EASTER BUNNY (0.21 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Results 1 - 10 of about 445,000 for Pic of LOCHNESS MONSTER (0.33 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 1,570,000 for Pic of TINKER BELL. (0.14 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Results 1 - 10 of about 23,600,000 for Pic of BIG FOOT. (0.22 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,110,000 for Pic of UFO. (0.17 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,060,000 for Pic of The STORK. (0.19 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 132,000 for Pic of OSCAR THE GROUCH. (0.17 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 820,000 for ILLUSTRATIONS of HIV. (0.20 seconds)
www.google.com/search
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 1,180,000 for Pics of HIV. (0.31 seconds)
www.google.com/search
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Unsu...
Google proves all!
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:52 AM...because scientists and researcher _always_ use Google...
Oh, and they use youtube, also... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Google proves all!
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:41 PMThe Next Mortal Kombat Play Station Game Should have Wally and HIV that way we know that the guys at Playstation have isolated HIV and asked him to fight Wally to $ave the Outworld...lol The Graphics will be so Awesome HIV Can Spit Gag genes at Wally! -
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Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 8:22 AMok, here is a prime example of your incoherant language. in case you were wondering.
"The Next Mortal Kombat Play Station Game Should have Wally and HIV that way we know that the guys at Playstation have isolated HIV and asked him to fight Wally to $ave the Outworld...lol The Graphics will be so Awesome HIV Can Spit Gag genes at Wally! " -
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Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 8:31 AMMy point exactly matthew
only a "child-man" like Tomas would even say something like this at all in THIS particular debate.
Video Gaming is the predominant thinking of that wich lies inside the mindset of a "Child". A Child's World is his Playstation Console. -
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Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 11:38 AMHoly inflamatory comment bat man!!!
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Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:00 PMJake just Shut up. or Up the Poisons. -
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Unsu...
Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 5:23 PM" Jake just Shut up. or Up the Poisons. "
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No one in this forum has told you to go kill yourself.
No one in this forum has made any comment to the effect that they actually wish you to be poisoned.
Yet, you would claim the moral high ground in your "discussion" (copy-and-pasting the works of others), AND then tell someone to 'off' theirself?
You had no credibility in the science world as far as I was concerned. Now you have no credibility in the HUMAN world as far as I'm concerned.
You personally amount to nothing, and it is your own doing. Either apologize and be a human being about things, or remain a permanent, self-made zero. -
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Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 7:01 PMYour right about Tomas Credibility
to me he's just another "Playstation Boi"
He's angry becuase he didn't camp out outside the stores last weekend and lost the opportunity to be the FIRST Boi on his parents Block with a Brand NEW shiny Black Plastic Playstation-3!
I bet next time you will buy a tent and camp out with your peers now won't you Tomas!
Ohh and BTW Boi? "Google proves Nothing" Its just a search engine where propagandist's post websites full of shit...just like YOURS on AOL.
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Re: Google proves all!
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:59 AM"" Jake just Shut up. or Up the Poisons. "
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No one in this forum has told you to go kill yourself.
No one in this forum has made any comment to the effect that they actually wish you to be poisoned. "
Hmmm...Wally -- according to you guys, what Tomas just called "poison" is actually a life-saving miracle drug which doubles your life expectancy.
So, in effect, Tomas was just wishing Jake a long and healthy life!
--- Gos
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Re: Google proves all!
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 6:24 PMoh I am sorry Wally but I thought you and Jake "thought" that the Poisons were just a Laundry List of incoherent Language...besides Jake hasa Problem with my Mother and I don't appreciate that and as far as what you think of me IT JUST DON'T MATTER..
HIV Denialist 101(sarcasm)
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Re: Google proves all!
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 6:34 PMNo one in this forum has told you to go kill yourself.
Nope they haven't told me (yet)...................................................................
No one in this forum has made any comment to the effect that they actually wish you to be poisoned.
But I am Sure there is a Big "Laundry List" of reasons why I should...
Yet, you would claim the moral high ground in your "discussion" (copy-and-pasting the works of others), AND then tell someone to 'off' theirself?
You defend the AID$ Poster boy ..If I were you I'd Be embarrassed!
You had no credibility in the science world as far as I was concerned. Now you have no credibility in the HUMAN world as far as I'm concerned.
Wally I had No credibility with you two or three Midnights ago... what else is new?
You personally amount to nothing
If I believed anything you say id be in Toxic Overload blaming my death on a Retrovirus...never mind looking like hunch back ..id be dead already...geeeesh
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Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 2:57 PMGag Env and Pol Ring a Bell? Matt? Remember Google Proves all! ;-)
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Google proves all!
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:56 PMThere are dozens of picture of HIV. If these are not a retrovirus what have we been looking at all these years?
At its inimical website "Focus on the HIV/AIDS Connection" the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases present their evidence "Why is there overwhelming scientific consensus that HIV causes AIDS?". The answer to this question of "consensus" includes an invitation to visit www.virology.net/Big_Virol...retro.html in order to see "Electron micrographs and other images of HIV". Of these 25 images the majority are diagrams, artists' renditions or computer graphics. Only eight images are electron microscopic pictures and none identify the source or nature of the material photographed. Significantly, none have a size bar, that is, in no EM is it possible to measure the size of the particles or determine the dimensions of any other morphological feature. From the scientific point of view this is both highly unprofessional and unsatisfactory because the dimension of particles is critical to taxonomy. The best conclusion one can draw from the EMs (the other images are irrelevant) is the existence in unidentified cell cultures of minute quantities of matter, that is, particles of indeterminate size which also possess certain other morphological features. Since these are the pictures "we have been looking at all these years", let us examine the proposition "These EMs are a retrovirus HIV".
First, how do we interpret this image? Compare it to this EM at the Virology link above . Both EMs show particles "budding" from the cell membrane but, whereas the second image is said to be "HIV", the first is a typical type-C retroviral particle found in a healthy, human placenta [1]. Such particles are present in nearly all human placentas [2,3], a fact scientists have known for at least forty years. Given that when Montagnier discovered HIV he reported "This virus is a typical type-C RNA tumor virus" (tumor virus is the previous name for retroviruses) and Gallo reported his EM as proof his "new isolates are members of the HTLV family", a particular species of type-C particles, do we conclude that nearly all healthy, pregnant women are also infected with a retrovirus HIV? Obviously not but equally as obvious it is essential to exercise great care when interpreting EM images bearing particles with the appearances of retroviruses.
We need a definition of a retrovirus particle. Professor Hans Gelderblom from the Koch Institute in Berlin, the world's leading figure in the electron microscopy of "HIV", defines retroviruses as "enveloped viruses with a diameter of 100-120 nm [nanometre=10-9 metre] budding at cellular membranes. Cell released virions contain condensed inner bodies (cores) and are studded with projections (spikes, knobs)" [4]. We also need to know that retroviruses are divided into three subfamilies (0ncovirinae, Lentivirinae and Spumavirinae). The subfamily Oncoviruses are subdivided into the genuses type -A, -B, -C, and -D particles [5]. See here. Retroviral particles also share a physical property of concentrating (banding) at a density of 1.16 gm/ml when centrifuged at high speeds in sucrose density gradients, a fact long used in their purification. See question x for further discussion.
When Juliet mused about her lover being a Montague and not a Capulet she said "What’s in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet". In other words, Juliet was talking about one species of plant. If we are searching for a retrovirus particle in EMs of the tissues of AIDS patients should we expect the same? If HIV were a flower awaiting discovery would we expect it to be a rose, a violet and a geranium all at the same time? We would not yet this is the case when we come back to examining EMs of tissues of AIDS patients. Montagnier and his colleagues reported HIV initially as a type C particle, then as a type D particle and then as a Lentivirus. In 1984 Gallo and his colleagues reported HIV as a type C particle. However, in 1985 Gallo wrote: "A possible unique feature of the virions is the cylindrical core observed in many presumably mature virions. Virions having this type of core have been frequently reported for certain type D retroviruses, and in some instances, for type C retroviruses". Jay Levy reported HIV as a type D particle. Others at the University of California wrote that "AIDS virus isolated show morphologic characteristics of type C, type D and Lentiviruses". According to Anthony Fauci and others" "T-cells and macrophages handle the virus very differently. In the T-cell, virus buds out of the external plasma membrane of the cell. In the monocyte/macrophage cultures it buds into membrane-bound vesicles inside the cells". The latter is a description of a type A, retroviral particle. Thus the leading HIV experts have described HIV as a member of two subfamilies and three genera of Retroviridae. These taxonomical differences imply that if HIV was a newly discovered mammal, it could have been human, a gorilla or an orang-utan. By consensus at present HIV is regarded as a Lentivirus. This agreement was reached when it was realised that in "HIV" positive individuals AIDS did not appear soon after "infection", although Lentivirus is a description based on appearances, not behaviour. But if "HIV" is now a Lentivirus then what Montagnier and Gallo discovered could not have been HIV. How can these and other scientists still claim HIV was discovered in 1983/84 and these papers provide "clearcut" evidence HIV is the cause of AIDS?
Thus we see there is more to this problem than meets the eye. The important message is that no amount of searching EMs can prove that a particular particle, even if it looks identical to a retroviral particle, proves the particle is a retrovirus. This follows because the crucial defining property of a virus or retrovirus is its ability to produce identical progeny when introduced into uninfected cell cultures. However, unlike all "other" viruses, retroviruses may appear in cultures in which no external ("exogenous") infection has taken place. That is, they may appear spontaneously, from "within", that is, "endogenously". Retrovirologists claim these retroviruses appear "out of nowhere" because cells contain pre-existing retroviral genetic information passed on from one's parents (known as "vertical" transmission). In fact animal data show that the yield and rate of appearance of such retroviruses can be accelerated a millionfold by chemically stimulating the cell cultures in the same manner as cultures derived from tissues of AIDS patients are manipulated to obtain "HIV". (Significantly, no "HIV" appears in cell cultures unless the cells are manipulated in this manner). Thus to prove the particles claimed to be "HIV" are a retrovirus and not inert, microscopic matter the "HIV" particles must be purified, that is, separated from all other biological material which might also be capable of stimulating the cells to produce similar particles and then added to fresh, "uninfected" cell cultures. If identical particles are obtained and also possess all the morphological and biochemical properties of Gelderblom's definition then a scientist can claim the particles are a retrovirus. In fact this was the approved and publicised method for retroviral research used in the decade before the AIDS era including by present day HIV protagonists such as Barre-Sinoussi and Chermann. If this procedure is not strictly followed then it is impossible to exclude the possibility the particles are the result of being sick with AIDS, or the culture conditions, or both. To date there is no experimental data proving that "HIV" particles have been purified much less data that the same particles generate identical particles. Thus there is no basis for the NIAID claim that the particles seen at the link on their website are a retrovirus.
Furthermore,
1. As Hans Gelderblom and his colleagues pointed out in 1998, to date nobody has reported the presence of "infectious plasma HIV".
2. At least a decade before the AIDS era retrovirologists including Gallo knew that particles with appearances similar to retroviruses may be found in cell cultures which had not been "infected" with a retrovirus [6]. These can be than "cellular fragments", microsomes from disrupted cells, "membraneous vesicles which may enclose other cellular constituents including nucleic acids", especially when "inadvertent lysis of cells" was induced. (In "HIV" research lysis is deliberately performed to obtain the "HIV" RNA and proteins). None of these retroviral-like particles are retroviruses because they are inert, that is, they are not replication competent.
3. In no HIV "infected" cultures to date are there particles which fulfil the Gelderblom definition. That is, that display both principle morphological characteristics of retroviruses, that is "a diameter of 100-120nm" AND surfaces which "are studded with projections (spikes, knobs)".
4. In the only EM study, either in vivo or in vitro, in which suitable controls were used and in which extensive blind examination of controls and test material was performed virus particles indistinguishable from "HIV" were found in 18/20 (90%) of AIDS as well as in 13/15 (88%) of non-AIDS or no risk of AIDS related lymph node enlargements. This led the authors to conclude: "The presence of such particles do not, by themselves indicate infection with HIV" [7]. See here and here. Can you distinguish the AIDS from the non-AIDS patient?
Thus the answer to the question "What have we been looking at all these years" should be rephrased "What have we been looking at and not looking at all these years?" [11]. Whatever the answer may be it is presumptuous to claim it is a retrovirus.
Next question
ENDNOTES (additional references are in the Perth Group papers).
1. Panem S. C Type Virus Expression in the Placenta. Current Topics in Pathology 1979;66:175-189.
2. Retroviral-like particles are ubiquitous [8]. In the 1970s such particles were frequently observed in human leukaemia tissues, cultures of embryonic tissues and "in the majority if not all, human placentas" . Type-C retroviral particles are present in "fish, snakes, worms, pheasant, quail, partridge, turkey, tree-mouse and agouti" as well as in "tapeworms, insects...and mammals"
3. Not only are the same particles as the "original HIV" particle present in the normal, "non-HIV" infected human placenta, so are the "specific" "HIV" proteins p18, p24 and gp120 [9]. Even more surprising, no "HIV" proteins could be found in the placentas of 75 HIV seropositive women [10].
4. Gelderblom HR, Özel M, Hausmann EHS, Winkel T, Pauli G, Koch MA. Fine Structure of Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV), Immunolocalization of Structural Proteins and Virus-Cell Relation. Micron Microscopica 1988;19:41-60.
5. Frank H. Retroviridae. In: Nermut MV, Steven AC, editors. Animal Virus and Structure. Oxford: Elsevier; 1987. p. 253-256.
6. Gallo RC, Wong-Staal F, Reitz M, Gallagher RE, Miller N, Gillespie DH. Some evidence for infectious type-C virus in humans. In: Balimore D, Huang AS, Fox CF, editors. Animal Virology. New York: Academic Press Inc.; 1976. p. 385-405.
7. O'Hara CJ, Groopman JE, Federman M. The ultrastructural and immunohistochemical demonstration of viral particles in lymph nodes from human immunodeficiency virus-related and non-human immunodeficiency virus-related lymphadenopathy syndromes. Human Pathology 1988;19(5):545-9.
8. Grafe A. A history of experimental virology. Heidelberg: Springer-Verlag; 1991.
9. Faulk WP, Labarrere CA. HIV proteins in normal human placentae. American Journal of Reproductive Immunolgy 1991;25(3):99-104.
10. Peuchmaur M, Delfraissy JF, Pons JC, Emilie D, Vazeux R, Rouzioux C, et al. HIV proteins absent from placentas of 75 HIV-1-positive women studied by immunohistochemistry. Aids 1991;5(6):741-5.
11. "What have we not been looking at all these years?" or "Why have the CDC, NIAID and other experts failed to publicise the whole "particle" story?
If Juliet had decided to present Romeo with a rose to symbolise her love she may well have sent her nurse to pick one from the garden. Let us suppose the nurse could distinguish flowers from trees but was not otherwise horticulturally gifted. She would have no problem bringing back a rose if she were directed to a rose garden where roses were the only plants growing. But if she were directed to a garden display containing several different species of flowers what could she do? She may have brought back a rose but she may have not. The same problem arises in relation to EM data of tissues and cultures from AIDS patients, although the NIAID do not publish these data. "HIV infected cultures" contain in addition to the particles with the morphology attributed to HIV many other "viral particles". For example: Hockley and his colleagues from the Electron Microscopy and Photography Section and Division of Virology at the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control in the United Kingdom describe a profusion of particles which they divide broadly into three groups, mature, ring-like and small with spikes. The mature particles "were approximately spherical in shape and 100 to 150nm in diameter. The outer lipid membrane was frequently broken or absent in places, and there was no evidence of surface spikes...A few mature particles were found that were larger than average and appeared to contain a double nucleoid...in the preparation of HIV there were always many vesicles with granular contents in which it was not possible to recognise a distinct nucleoid". Also, "The ring-like particles had a more consistently spherical shape and were larger (140nm in diameter)" and the small particles "were unusually spherical but sometimes slightly angular in shape and 65 to 90nm in diameter" and had spike-like projections on their surface. Hans Gelderblom who has done most of the EM studies in HIV/AIDS research reported that although Lentiviruses and thus HIV is considered to have a cone shaped core, he and his colleagues found centrosymmetric and tubular cores as well. The caption to one photograph reads: "Virions can be seen having either elongated, 'baton-like' tubular cores 30-35nm in diameter or containing more than one core. Tubular and regular cone-shaped cores can coexist within one virion". The text states: "Rarely, tubular core structures reminiscent of batons with a diameter of 30-35nm and a length of 150-250nm are observed". Lekatsas and other virologists from Pretoria and Johannesburg reported: "We used the characteristic cylindrical structure in the core as an identifying characteristic for the virus to distinguish it from cellular debris and also noted that it may vary considerably in its dimensions and morphological features. We have found two basic virus particle sizes, 90nm and 120nm, both present in large numbers. The larger particle bears no surface projections while the smaller particle is rarely 'naked' and usually bears projections". The CDC reported: HIV particles are "usually round and have a diameter of about 85-95nm...Virus with bar-shaped nucleoids and particles with a tear-drop shape are commonly seen in HTLV-III/LAV infected lymphocytes, sometimes ring-shaped particles without dense nucleoids are also seen". The question then arises if the particles with the "unique" morphology considered to be HIV represent an exogenous retrovirus originating from tissues of AIDS patients or those at risk, then what is the origin and role of the many non-HIV particles and which, if any, of the "HIV" or non-HIV particles band at 1.16 gm/ml? That is, which have the density characteristic of retroviruses? (see question x). Given the profusion of particles that are present in these cultures how does anyone know which particle is "HIV" or which particles, "HIV" or "not-HIV", causes AIDS? The problem is confounded even further because retrovirus-like particles have been found in non-HIV-infected cord blood lymphocytes cell cultures and in other cells used for HIV "isolation" such as and H9 (HUT-78), CEM, C8166 and EBV transformed B-cells.
THEPERTHGROUP.com
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:55 AMI'm one of those herpes and KSHV negative whackos, so I participate in a lot of virology studies at the University of Washington. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:25 AM
"Guinea Pigs R us"..
Nazi Gas ovens...Chemotherapy and Concentration Clinics. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:56 AMYou clearly do not understand what I said or what it is that I do.
Thanks for your kind support, however.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:33 AMInformational balance, and getting tested
About Peter Duesberg:
www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm
www.aids.org/atn/a-277-07.html
About HIV/AIDS testing:
www.msichicago.org/ed/AIDS/hivtst1.htm
www.cdc.gov/hiv/dhap.htm
Get tested. Be safe. Be honest. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 11:35 AMABOUT THE NIH
www.healtoronto.com/nih/
www.omidyar.net/group/issu...corruption/
ABOUT THE CDC:
""The CDC would be the last place in the world to go for information regarding health. The CDC is a government bureacracy funded by theft (taxation that has reached confiscatory levels) and run by white collar criminals who regularly misinform and misdirect the public while creating pandemonium in the marketplace (unnecessary destruction of livestock, recalls etc) and conspiring to incite public panic on an almost daily basis, in violation of the constitution of the United States."--Dr Duffy DC"
Epidemic Intelligence Service:
"The Centers for Disease Control has had three major programs through which it can make diseases appear infectious and make everyone step in line to agree. One is that in the early 1950s they formed a special unit, an elite, semi-secret unit, that is now almost fully secret, called the Epidemic Intelligence Service (EIS). New graduates of medical schools, or biological graduate schools, or perhaps dental schools, or a few other things, public health departments, are recruited upon graduation to take a several-week course, and then dispatched on two-year active assignment, paid by the CDC, in various local and state health departments to become the eyes and ears of the CDC—an invisible intelligence network that watches for the tiniest clusters of disease, and, when the CDC deems appropriate, turns them into national emergencies. We saw this kind of cynical manipulation in the 1957 Asian flu epidemic. We saw it in the 1960s with clusters of leukemia, which they tried to make appear infectious. We saw that with the swine flu epidemic that never materialized, in 1976, and with the Legionnaire's epidemic that same year. And we've seen it more recently with Lyme disease, with Hantavirus pneumonia, and just one thing after another.
Even after those two years, every member of the EIS becomes part of a permanent reserve officer corps for the CDC that could be called up in case of national emergency or time of war, to serve as officers of their respective ranks, with actual emergency powers. Today many of these people, by sitting in foundations, major companies, the new media, Surgeon General's office, and other key positions politically, act as silent advocates for the CDC, echoing the CDC's viewpoint whenever it needs support. So of course that's a very influential network, and I might add that as of about one year ago, because of too many outside requests for the membership directory of the EIS, the CDC has recently suppressed the availability of this directory. They no longer want people knowing what the membership is."-----Bryan Ellison
We have no faith in the integrity of the CDC and the FDA. They are doing all they can to protect themselves and Big Pharma from the truth; that the autism epidemic is caused by Big Pharma's greed and the failure of the CDC and the FDA to do their jobs. Big Pharma must not be allowed to evade its financial liability for the damage their vaccines have caused. Like the tobacco companies in the last century, which kept denying the cigarette-lung cancer link, the drug companies are lying, with the help of the CDC and FDA, about the role of vaccines in causing the autism's epidemic. When the lung cancer cases finally got to court, the truth came out. We parents insist on our right to hold the drug companies liable, in court, for the harm they have caused. The matter must be decided fairly in the legal system, and not by loophole riders exonerating the drug companies that have been added to appropriation bills in the dark of night. The drug companies caused the autism epidemic and they, not the parents nor the public, must pay the costs. They are guilty, they are very profitable and can and should be held accountable.[3/2006] A message from Bernard Rimland, Ph.D.
whale.to/vaccines/cdc.htm
ABOUT THE PHARMECEUTICAL INDUSTRY:
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT:
www.youtube.com/watch
ABOUT RYAN WHITE:
www.youtube.com/watch
ABOUT AID$ INCORPORATED:
www.youtube.com/watch
Hidden Facts and Dangers of HIV Tests (John King on 14 August 2006)
Hidden Facts and Dangers of HIV Tests
What's in the Fine Print
Remarkable information about HIV tests including the fact that no HIV test has ever been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration for the actual diagnosing of HIV infection.
Few doctors, clinics, journalists, or AIDS organizations know that all current HIV tests are approved only as screening tests, prognostic tests (for predicting a possible future outcome) or as "an aid in diagnosis" and are not intended to be used for determining if a person actually has HIV.
The FDA's lack of such approval speaks to the fact that no HIV test can directly detect or quantify HIV or determine the presence of specific HIV antibodies in human blood.
Recent changes in the fine print of the test kits acknowledge this little known data and seem to indicate a change of thought with regard to the role of HIV in AIDS.
From 1984 until last year, test literature contained the very certain statement that "AIDS is CAUSED by HIV." Then in November of 2002, a new test kit started what now seems to be a trend toward rethinking the causal link between HIV and AIDS. It states, "AIDS, AIDS related complex and pre-AIDS
are THOUGHT TO BE CAUSED by HIV." (OraQuick Rapid HIV-1 Antibody Test, OraSure Technologies, Inc)
Now it appears we've gone from "HIV is thought to cause AIDS," to something even more uncertain: "Published data indicate A STRONG CORRELATION between the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) and a retrovirus REFERRED TO as Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)."
This last quote is found in the package insert for a new ELISA test (Vironostika HIV-1 Plus O Microelisa System) the FDA approved in June 2003.
The entire package insert can be downloaded from
www.fda.gov/cber/pma/P020066.htm
According to Alive & Well advisor Dr Rodney Richards, a chemist and co-creator of the very first HIV test, as of June 2003, the number of FDA approved tests that contain the term HIV or LAV (the old school term for the so-called virus) have risen to 36. Of these, 13 have been approved in just the last three years.
Richards points out that "despite the increased number of HIV tests, there is still no manufacturer that claims their test can be used to diagnose infection with HIV. All of the RNA based tests for viral load and genotyping clearly state they are 'NOT intended for use in diagnosing HIV infection.'
Instead of an indication for use in detecting or quantifying the actual virus, these tests are approved only for prognosis or monitoring therapy for people who doctors assume are infected.�
Richards is working on a document to clarify what HIV test
manufacturers mean by the terms "prognosis," "monitoring of therapy," and "aid in the diagnosis of HIV." His report will focus on what the tests cannot do (diagnose HIV infection) and what exactly they can.
At first glance, the rapid tests may appear relatively benign since the manufacturers clearly emphasize that "preliminary positives" must be confirmed with follow up testing. This emphasis is due to the fact that the accuracy of the rapid tests� is widely known to be more questionable than the already dubious HIV ELISA or Western Blot. But the notion that
medical personnel will await confirmation of results before insisting patients take action is entirely misguided since the true market for rapid tests is pregnant women in labor
Incredibly, the recommendation to misuse rapid tests for women in labor comes directly from the Deputy Commissioner of the FDA himself, Dr. Lester M Crawford. The good doctor says "OraQuick will be a great help in identifying pregnant HIV-infected women going into labor who were not tested during pregnancy so that precautionary steps can be taken to block their newborns from being infected with HIV." (FDA News, November 7, 2002)
These precautionary steps include IV infusion of the toxic chemotherapy AZT during labor, C-section delivery, six weeks of mandatory AZT treatment for the baby regardless of their own HIV status, and orders to the mother not to breastfeed. Even though chemotherapy, surgery and denial of normal
feeding are based on preliminary results from a test never approved for detecting HIV infection, a mother who declines such intervention risks losing custody of her child.
Perhaps more remarkable than official calls for misuse of rapid tests is a disclosure by the manufacturer of the OraQuick that 7% of women with a history of prior pregnancy will score falsely positive on their test. Further, the manufacturer of the newly approved Reveal test didn't even evaluate their product in multiparous women.
Worse still, as Dr Richards points out, the rapid tests may soon be routinely administered to women tested negative before labor. "Based on the erroneous belief these tests can actually diagnose HIV infection, doctors may want to retest women in labor who�ve previously come up negative just to
be sure they haven't seroconverted in the mean time."
Another lucrative market for the rapid tests is among healthcare workers who experience accidental needle sticks or other unintentional contact with patient fluids. As Richard points out, this opens a Pandora�s box of potential life-altering situations.
"Imagine a nurse sticks herself with a used needle. Ora-Sure gives her the impression she can find out quickly if that needle is contaminated with HIV. Should the needle score positive, she would then be urged to start prophylactic chemotherapy right away. Of course, if the needle scores positive, hospitals would most likely feel an ethical responsibility to
inform the patient and to urge them to also start 'saving their lives' with AIDS meds. Since there are 600,000 to 1,000,000 accidental needles sticks in the US annually, this is a huge market for both the test and treatment manufacturers."
The great influence of drug and test manufacturers on public health policy, media presentations and among AIDS activist groups may mean that the hidden dangers of rapid tests will remain unknown.
www.actoronto.org/website/a...CA007D5E29
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ALL OF MY HATE CANNOT BE FOUND ~ KORN
www.MySpace.com/HIVisaLIE -
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Unsu...
About the realities of science and the vagueries of the virus dissidents...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 12:33 PM** About Peter Duesberg...
www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm
www.aids.org/atn/a-277-07.html
** About "gold standards" and intellectual dishonesty -- Elenei Papadopulos' "The Perth Group"
The "gold standard" that Papadopulos cites as being necessary for the identification of HIV, does not work for ANY of the T-cell retroviruses.
So, when a new and different virus showed up, Elenei Papadopulos applied a tried-and-true, old standard, and blammo, it didn't work. That does not make it the end of the story, as she would have everyone believe. Rather than question her assumptions upon the failure of her experiement, she simply pronounced judgement in the most unscientific manner possible. She makes football players look like neuro surgeons.
Elenei Papadopulos' "gold standard" is not used for influenza, because the "gold standard" for the retrovirus that causes influenza is to culture it.
There are different "gold standards" for different bacterium, the influenza virus, HHV-8, and polio. Elenei Papadopulos pretends to claim there is only one "gold standard" when she talks about HIV, and she is wrong (when pressed she will admit her "mis-statement," but "virus dissidents" take her at her at her word, never questioning anything she says). Would the "gold standard" be different for prions? The answer is YES.
The research of Duesberg and Papadopulos lacks proper and meaningful controls, and has not shown itself to be reproduceable upon peer review.
Favorite tactics are to compare HIV to the flu or a cold. Fine, compare them, but at what point does influenza or a cold hijack the immune system and then hide within it? At no point, and that is where this particular "model-based" argument fails.
** About REAL WORLD observations...
" Direct ex vivo flow cytometric analysis of human microglial cell CD4 expression: examination of central nervous system biopsy specimens from HIV-seropositive patients and patients with other neurological disease.
AIDS. 11(14):1699-1708, November 15, 1997.
Dick, Andrew D. 1,4; Pell, Malcolm 2; Brew, Bruce J. 3; Foulcher, Elena 1; Sedgwick, Jonathon D. 1,5
Abstract:
[...]
Conclusions: When activated in situ, microglia express low levels of CD4 and this is always seen in tissue from HIV-infected patients. Using the flow cytometric phenotype established here, microglia from HIV-infected tissue can now be isolated in pure form and studied directly ex vivo.
(C) Lippincott-Raven Publishers.
Copyright © 2005, Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. All rights reserved.
Published by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. "
www.aidsonline.com/pt/re/ai...2!9001!-1
** More...
www.virology.net/Big_Virol...retro.html
** About HIV/AIDS testing...
www.msichicago.org/ed/AIDS/hivtst1.htm
www.cdc.gov/hiv/dhap.htm
Get tested. Be safe. Be honest.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:54 AMDo you know the name of this "dubious non specific antibody test?"
Do you know how it works?
Let's talk about that... -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 11:38 AMnuff said. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 12:04 PM"nuff said."
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Dude, you haven't done anything except copy-and-paste the junk science of other idiots. "nuff said?" About what?
Let's get right down to the basics and talk _REAL_ science... Can you do that? Are you willing to question even the things that you think you know? I have to question everything I know every day...what is your excuse for dogmatic entrenchment in pseudo-religious viral theologies?
Come on, turn your head and cough, boy. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 1:01 PMWally and Tomas', now stop throwing mud at each other and pick up your toys and go to your room. Both of you!!:-)
What's so funny about your interaction is that I see a relationship beginning to form, and if you were both in the same room, you'll both probable see that you have a lot in common with each other; you'll probably get along quite well. But at least, what you're doing is having a sound debate, based on the information you have, which is what I think both the reappraisers and the apologist outta do. Now Wally, you've been chastising Tomas' about copying and pasting links, and I see you're doing the same. Be fair.
Now I want you two to kiss and make up, and if you find a way to make love, well.....decide if you'll want to use a blanket (c#ck-cover) or not:-))
I think you two should pursue this debate more personally, maybe over the phone, lol.
Love,
Terry -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:12 PMTerry, to a point I can agree with you. The difference here is that I can explain in excruciating detail the reproductive process of an RNA retrovirus, and I can do it because I know how it works. I can find different ways to explain how it works because I understand how it works. I can scientifically extrapolate why one test may or may not be as accurate as another test for said virus because I understand what the tests are testing for, how they work, and their application in other areas.
I can do all of that in my own words; right here and right now.
I'm just trying to get Tomas to answer a simple starter topical question about RNA retroviruses and DNA, and he outright refuses to answer or even honestly approach the subject. This isn't rocket science, and I'm not trying to sell him short, but his method of maligning the messenger _first_ and then hammering with with deft Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V skills is not "discussion."
I don't have anything to lose by learning something from Tomas, but he refuses to offer the opportunity for me to partake in such a learning discussion.
There is a difference there that I can reasonably assume that you do see. I can only ask, "why would he do such a thing?"
I don't know the answer. I could assume, but I'll just stick with asking the question and inviting him to help me learn from him. It seems the most rational approach.
My entire life has been about asking questions, seeking knowledge, and applying that knowledge in a documentable fashion so I can go back and see where I do or do not make mistakes, and then learn from that and so on. "Answers" are not knowledge any more than cut-and-paste is an answer. I do believe that in sticking with the basics of an RNA retrovirus, first, that I am being incredibly honest and fair to Tomas. He has yet to reciprocate and share his knowledge. I'm patient, I'll wait. I am confident that you can see why I tend to use a metered approach for a common ground in this discussion. It has to start at the cellular level, or no sharing of knowledge can ever take place. -
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Unsu...
Answers versus knowledge
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 5:23 PMTo illustrate a bit of what I mean about "answers" not being knowledge, take this simple math example...
If you've never learned about multiplication and addition, and you don't know how to apply them, and I tell you that 2 x 2 = 4 and that 2 + 2 = 4, I have given you examples with answers. What I have not done is to impart to you the essential information that you would need to see that 3 x 3 does not equal 6 even though 3 + 3 = 6.
The understanding and application of knowledge is the fundamental basis upon which learning dialogue can take place. Throwing answers around is intellectually dishonest and lazy, and does not allow for understanding. Telling someone that the sky is blue does not enable them to know why it is so, and how that knowledge can be used to understand the colors of other things.
These are Tomas' failings, and I truly feel sorry for him. -
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Science Versus $cience
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:07 AMI would have never did that Wally if you had not of ATTACKED another Scientist because you know very well that a Dissident is going to read upon Dissident Scientists and Understand that Retroviruses Need a Cell to Survive rather than Kill a cell Period.
Furthermore telling a Dissident and everyone in this forum that Any Scientist is Not Credible makes you look foolish and a hipocrite because Everyone should Question why you would belittle another Scientist and Give Yourself the Credit and Who are You to be doing this kind of Thing....
Websites Like the Catholic Aegis,Avert the British Charity, and Other Anti Dissident Sites are in one way or another Pharmeceutically funded for the HIV Hypothesis.
Dissidents get No Funding...The Reason HIV/AIDS has Become such a Religious war is the fact that No One is allowed to Question HIV/AIDS including other Scientists.. it's Just has to be accepted as fact becuase Scientists like you say so.
Does Anybody really Care what you Believe at this Point? What you teach? No. Because you lost Your Credibility and perhaps Opportunity at Midnight. The Kind of Answers you throw around ARE NEVER Justified.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:04 PMWally,
I wasn't going to Respond here any longer and As Usual The International AIDS CULT will ALWAYS keep the SCAMDEMIC Alive while innocent human beings are being LIED to and MURDERED.
More and More Africans & Gay Men will Die at the Hands of Xtreme Leunatics Such as yourself ,Gallo,Montagnier, and RELIGIOUS Freaks like Fred Phelps,NARTH ,( www.narth.com/index.html )P.A.T.H . and so many others...
The Huge Profits for the Pharmeceutical Industry every year are from GAY MEN standing in line at Health Departments and Pharmacies awaiting their Prescribed doses of LETHAL AIDS DRUGS all for a Scientific Scam that has ONLY MONEY to gain.
While I have admitted here in this forum that I am NOT a Doctor or a Scientist but a so-called "HIV Positive" person you have done nothing but criticize me as if I were a Scientist to play BIBLE games with AND I THINK YOU KNEW THAT.
To be Honest.. during my posts I thought you were Phillip at one point because you had ANSWERED something I had responded to him.. with that being said as you Found it Neccessary to Jump in and "EAT DENIALSTS AS SNACKS" how wonderful and credible of you!
You Guys May call me Whatever you feel Necessary I DON'T CARE because I have accepted that HATRED is in the world and it flows daily in our lives. My past Lifestyle and My Personal Experience as a so-called HIV Patient within the AIDS Establishment gave me a HARD REALITY CHECK on JUST HOW Gay Men are Not Welcomed here on Planet Earth. We are shunned and asked to be hidden and what makes me even MORE Angry is the Fact that The High dollar "Gay Industry" Gaydotcom and its affiliates are willing and able to do exactly what you are doing.. absolute Betrayal.
ITS NO SECRET that if the International Gay Community Would Open their Eyes to the GREAT HIV/AID$ $CAM the whole Empire would Crumble! The MODERN JIM JONES Tragedy against Gay Men has been reincarnated into a mass scale of Genocide.
You Made Comments earlier that Gallo and Montagnier is OLD news or something to that effect..this is TYPICAL of AIDS Apologists that the HIV Hypothesis MUST Change Constantly in order to be Scientifically Correct.. it's like asking me to pick up a Bible for the first time and Start with the New Testament First "GOD Only Knows" what kind of Doctrines I could make up..
As for all of your OTHER Responses.. Links..and references I have looked at them and read most of the PDF Files Print..I welcome MAINSTREAM Information because it ONLY confirms the Dissident Perspective. I subscribe to POZ magazine and I read up on the Latest Studies from the Medical Journals.. I may Not be able to Isolate viruses or do Mathematical models of Viruses (yet) but I am No Dummy..I can read and Understand Clearly. What I WON"T DO IS ACCEPT ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAVE TO SAY Regarding Dubious NON SPECIFIC HIV TESTING or PICS of the Lochness Monster!
People Who Refer to Rethinkers or Dissidents as Denialists and Deniers have Built a religious based Science in their Own Mindset it's like Protectors of the temple of the great HIV god and the fear of Letting Go of the Myth because they are in Denial or just $cared $hitless.
I notice for Some reason..god only knows.. You Despise Microsoft for inventing Copy and Paste feature and by the way Wally I found the Perfect place for you to debate since Straw men, ad hominem, ad Nausium etc are your faves.. If Most of the Guys here Cannot see your intent then they too are blinded by Science and the pathetic Myth of HIV and AID$.
www.CARM.org
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:49 PMTomas, none of that relates to me in any fashion whatsoever. Your assumptions about me and what I stand for are your issues, not mine. Literally, not a single thing you said in your post applies to me in an manner at all. You don't know me and you keep driving that point home with each additional post you make about what I stand for in your opinion... Stop guessing and start asking.
Now, let's get back to the place where you can help me learn something... Let us just start with the basics of viruses, and go from there instead of jumping to conclusions about what people whom you don't even know stand for.
Let's tackle the issue of the average RNA retrovirus and how they are produced from DNA (as you have previously stated) in the body's cells.
What are your thoughts about the immunofluorescent assay (IFA)? It is a pretty cool technology and has already saved a lot of lives.
How about this new test that actually detects the RNA of the HIV virus? What are your thoughts on that? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:13 AMWell if You haven't just promoted one of mankinds BIGGEST $cam's in History then I don't know what else to tell ya.. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:41 AMTomás, you have a strong opinion and I respect that, I think your views are worth looking at and deserve to be made public but the manner in which you do it smacks of holocaust revisionism. For the first time on here I find myself in complete agreement with Matthew. You seem to think the people reading your posts and the links you put up are incapable of reasoning things out for themselves. I also agree with Jack in that you are possibly hurting people who are quite ill at the moment and reading some of your comments, I've tried to make light of this thread because of that but Tomás I have to tell me know you've reached entropy, I just wish you'd realise that. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:04 PMMick I am Sorry you feel this way..I simply don't know what else to tell you.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:08 PMMick i am Sure there is enough room for more Nazi's just ask Jake and Wally..Matthew seems confused because he's a perfectionist. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:15 PMTomas..Go Play a Game on your Playstation Little Boi and leave the REAL world to the MEN.
ALL of your so-called Information is both Dated and flawed and documented as un-proven!
You use HIV information from the 90's. and Wally has PROVED IT.
Stick with your game Console Boi. It's where your mindset is at.
BTW Tomas "PlayStation2" is as old as your information is. Did you camp out in front of Best Buy last week like the other teen bois to get YOUR Playstation3 Game?
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Unsu...
I despise Microsoft?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:57 PMYou say I despise Microsoft for their invention of copy and paste?
OhmygodI'mgoingtolaughmyarseoff!
I don't hate Microsoft.
Microsoft did NOT invent copy and paste.
This would be a nice little example of your catastrophic reading comprehension failures in action.
What I dislike is the intellectually lazy and dishonest practice of copying information from one Website and posting it as an "answer" to real dialogue somewhere else. First, it isn't an answer, and second, you never quote it and cite it properly. If they aren't your words, then it isn't a discussion. Do you understand how that works? -
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Re: I despise Microsoft?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 6:40 AMIT WOULDN"T MATTER ANY WAY BECAUSE Even those Scientists who DO have the Credentials with a Website to View or a Book to Read are "SIMPLY DISMISSED" by YOU and Everyone else. All of he Same Mumbo from Avert,Aeigis,NIH,CDC,UNAIDS,WHO...is accepted as fact...when it's all Theories and Money Making Ideas.. ITS NO SECRET THE HIV/AIDS Industry is Corrupt
Any Scientist thats Credible in the Dissident movement are Surpressed and Ignored..
As far as Windows XP I can COPY & PASTE! I really could Care less WHAT YOU THINK OF IT OR ME..
I Didn't Just Decide one day to take on a Hobby as an HIV Dissident although Satire and Comedy Stand up would be a great Laugh!
By the Way WALLY The Day You BECOME Perfect...... is the day I'll be lauging my ass off...and at least I have your attention. -
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Unsu...
Re: I despise Microsoft?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:34 AMOh, you poor martyred little killers...
No one is dismissed by me out-of-hand...nope, they have to work at it. Even then, it might surprise you to find out that I don't stop reading their work...but you don't care about facts, only about your own twisted little reality... You and your "kin" are all repressed unfairly by the system...the Orthodoxy... Yet, your stand in matters of virus science kills untold thousands of people every day.
I'm sorry that you don't actually have to face the true reality your position espouses.
I have never even pretended to be perfect, and your statement is only indicative of your own self-esteem issues. Please, stop with the projection and get on with your life. You don't have to live in fear.
Meanwhile... Martyr on, oh wise one... -
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Re: I despise Microsoft?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:27 PMYou act like a foolish god doing ever fucking thing at your convienience! your AID$ Zone induced mindset will CO$T so many Innocent Gay Men their life! You're a Nazi Wally Admit it.
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Unsu...
Howdy Tomas...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 5:08 PMHowdy Tomas, what do you think about this new test? I mean, the Western Blot is Ok for labs that have highly qualified technicians, but it has always suffered from interpretation errors...but this actually detects the RNA of the HIV virus...pretty slick, really. It will be interesting to see how it turns out, eh?
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New test finds HIV at earliest stage
United Press International - October 5, 2006
ROCKVILLE, Md., (UPI) -- The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has OK'd the first HIV test that detects the presence of the HIV-1 virus's RNA.
The new diagnostic -- which experts say might ultimately replace the standard "Western blot" test used to confirm an HIV-positive test result -- is sold by San Diego-based Gen-Probe under the trade name Aptima.
The new genetic test also allows detection of the HIV virus at an earlier point than was previously possible -- before HIV antibodies even appear in the patient's system.
"This product offers medical diagnostic laboratories the ability to perform a gene-based test for HIV-1 that, until now, was only available as part of a larger kit used to screen blood and plasma donors," said Jay Epstein, director of the FDA's Office of Blood Research and Review at the agency's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. "This test also can detect infection with HIV-1 earlier than HIV antibody tests when used to detect primary HIV-1 infection."
Health experts say the Western blot test sometimes yields inconclusive results and can be hard to interpret.
061005
0610
Copyright © 2006 - United Press International. All rights reserved. Reproduced with permission. Reproduction of this article (other than one copy for personal reference) must be cleared through United Press International, Permissions Desk, 1510 H St. N.W. Washington DC 2005. Main Phone Switchboard: 202-898-8000 FAX: 202-898-8057 or 202-898-8147 Email: info@upi.com.
AEGiS is a 501(c)3, not-for-profit, tax-exempt, educational corporation. AEGiS is made possible through unrestricted grants from Boehringer Ingelheim, Bridgestone/Firestone Charitable Trust, Bristol-Myers Squibb Company, Elton John AIDS Foundation, the National Library of Medicine, Roche and Trimeris, and donations from users like you. Always watch for outdated information. This article first appeared in 2006. This material is designed to support, not replace, the relationship that exists between you and your doctor.
AEGiS presents published material, reprinted with permission and neither endorses nor opposes any material. All information contained on this website, including information relating to health conditions, products, and treatments, is for informational purposes only. It is often presented in summary or aggregate form. It is not meant to be a substitute for the advice provided by your own physician or other medical professionals. Always discuss treatment options with a doctor who specializes in treating HIV.
Copyright ©1980, 2006. AEGiS. All materials appearing on AEGiS are protected by copyright as a collective work or compilation under U.S. copyright and other laws and are the property of AEGiS, or the party credited as the provider of the content. comments@aegis.org
"
From www.aegis.org/news/upi/20...P061004.html
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Unsu...
Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:40 PMImmunofluorescent assay (IFA) is a 14-year-old HIV test that is conveniently _NEVER_ mentioned by people who believe that either HIV doesn't exist, or that it doesn't cause AIDS...
What are your thoughts on the values and merits of this test, Tomas? -
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 3:25 PMAnyone want some popcorn? This is getting interesting, sorta.
*pop* -
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 4:07 PMIs it low-fat trans fat-free popcorn? ;-) -
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 6:49 PMHey! Trans is ok!! As long as they don't eat all the popcorn.... I put a little butter on it and some garlic and yeast.. -
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Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 7:29 PMMMMM!
Butter
Garlic
Yeast
Three ingredients that are 100% free of Trans-Fats!
Excellent choice of garnish for Popcorn Timothy...but..where's the "Cheese"?
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Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 8:18 PMhow did this turn from Do you care if your partners are poz or not? To if there is or isnt HIV or AIDS? -
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Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 2:34 PMBecause if the latter question is not answered, the former is irrelevant. That should be obvious.
--- Gos
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 8:40 PMSorry, cheese makes me sneeze.... As far as the original question goes, while if I do decide that I am in need of sexual partnership, I tend to stick with guys who are poz and out about it.. It is out in the open for both of us and then I don't have to feel that I have deal with the baggage that comes along with my HIV status. I'm so very tired of reading "disease free UB 2" when really that is suppose to put their fears to rest that just because they say they are negative that makes it so. I also find it interesting that many of the same people who want "disease free u B 2" are the same folks who then turn around and have unsafe sex because they believe that people don't lie. They need to pick up the clue phone and soon... Unless you can present your negative test results on paper at a moments notice when asked, saying you are negative is kinda silly if you aren't. I think I read somewhere that up to a quarter of all HIV infections are from people who have no idea they have the virus until they get tested. Ignorance is bliss?
..Like the ad says "we are all positive"..
Now back to our regularly scheduled popcorn....
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 12:06 AMThe reason I asked is because I don't eat "light" popcorn, and without the fat and salt I'd rather eat freeze-dried tofu patties. :) -
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 12:18 AMArn't ya meant to spell it "lite"? and I thought all you Americans knew that. . . . . -
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 12:55 AMI grew up in the back pocket of SE British Columbia/SW Alberta? I drink good beer? I'm 2nd generation Irish-Montanan-American? I ate gophers as a child?
I don't know...pick the one that works bestest. :) -
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 1:43 AMwhat's good beer? I've eaten kangaroo, camel, crocodile and freshly shot rabbits many times. . . . . . well, at least you know how to spell.
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Unsu...
Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:07 AMMmmmm gophers are tasty, specially with gopher sauce... -
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Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:25 AMTimothy
That was a good post and it's much the same thing I do as well.
So many Gay Men hide behind the "I've never been tested" ruse just to be comfortable with assuming if they don't know their status that they are HIV Negative. There are more people out there who "assume they are negative" becuase they have never been tested,than those of Us who ARE currently negative and think we may have been exposed and get tested to be certain.
Like you said "Ignorance is Bliss".
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Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 8:23 PM"Anyone want some popcorn? This is getting interesting, sorta. "
Bwaaaaah hahahahahaha, lwol.
yep!:-)
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Re: Here's a 14-year-old bit of info...
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:30 PMIt's a Dubious Antibody test that has to be Confirmed by OTHER Antibody tests as Gos Said it's a Pre- Pre SCREENING Test..go figure...eh?
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:37 AMit occurs to me that the logical position of hiv/aids deniers is rather similar to creationists.
basically they are both saying that because a scientific theory is not 100% ironclad it should be tossed out, while remaining ambiguous about what should be put in its place, and refusing to acknowledge the personal motivations that cause them to so passionately attack the best answers that science can come up with.
what are those motivations i wonder? it seems obvious to me that there must be some given how high emotions in that camp run.
it's rather cheap to bring an argument to the level of the personal, but it seems to me that wally has very ably exhausted the logically possibliities and we are left with the question, why is it that hiv/aids deniers are so passionate about their mission?
and, at least from some pamphlets i've read and tomas' posts, why do they express themselves in such incoherant language? -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 11:01 AMWhat hiv/aids deniers have in common with creationists is a deep animosity to science, and to western medicine in particular. I think what some of them object to is that science actually tests out claims that are made for alternative medicine. A few years ago some people got rich by touting the use of Echinacea. Millions of people wanting to avoid a bout with the cold tried it out. Then along comes some objective scientific testing and Echinacea is shown to be worthless. This has happened with many other alternative products, thankfully most of them are harmless if not devoid of any health benefits.
With the debate over hiv/aids medication however the consequences of stopping those meds can be fatal. Part of the reason that some alternative medicine advocates dislike the hiv drugs is their belief that germs are not the cause of disease. If they miss a basic fact like that then ther is room for all sorts of missinformation to develop.
If there is to be an effective alternative approach it would need to be proven in real life just as the current perscriptions were.
If anybody reading this is being told by a "natural healer" to stop their medications I suggest you question them very closely. Do not simply take their word for it. Objective information is available so it is possible to make an informed decision.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 2:26 PMYes, I can see your side about the claims of ‘alternative medicines,’ but the paradox is that alternative medicines are not ‘medicines.’ They are pretty much put across as natural herbal remedies: the same such remedies our grandparents and great grandparents used before major pharmaceutical companies became Gods and Goddesses. Keep in mind that a lot of our ‘drugs’ derive from natural plants and bark --- like asprin.
We can’t deny the curable effects many of the drugs/meds, dispense from our doctors have had. But it was also the over use of std antibiotics that also played a culprit in the early stages of aids. Gay men in the major cities were demanding their doctors give them plenty of antibiotics because of the high rate of std’s, and gay men where popping those antibiotics like M&M’s. That wasn’t a very good idea, but no one knew the harsh and damaging effects antibiotics will have, and the immune over loaded and damage that was to follow--- not to mention a few other ingredients that can lead to immune breakdown.
Some alternative herbal remedies are ‘Powerful,’ too, and if a person doesn’t know what they are doing, they can cause some serious damage to them self, which is now, a lot of naturopathic clinics are opening up to assist people in the use of these remedies. There are plenty of people (not associated with an herbal organization) that also know what they are doing, but, they’ve been using and recommending alternative natural remedies for years..
Some drugs companies can’t take control of, or overthrow a particular owner of an herbal plant and bark, so in retaliation, they can have their scientist find a particular herb as being ‘useless.’ Like the plant; Neem. Like the ‘Grapefruit See Extract.’ Also, a natural remedy called; ‘Oil of Oregano.’ Many top pharmaceutical companies can’t deny the powerful curing and healing effects these natural supplements are. But, if a drug company can’t seize control over it, they will do what they can to knock the competition out of the water. Again, it’s business as usual and it’s always to the competitor to knock its’ opponent out of the water, and make slanderous claims about the product.
I agree that anyone shouldn’t go ‘cold turkey’ off their meds because the ‘withdrawal symptoms can be more shocking to the body, then like coming off heroin. As coming off any drug that’s harsh to the body, (legal or illegal), the detoxifing and withdrawal process can do some serious damage, if you don’t know what you’re doing. The only thing with the hiv therapy drugs is that the person is told to take them for life; keep in mind that these are strong chemotherapy drugs. And many aren’t aware of the long-term damage these products can have on the liver and other organs, and the mental damage these drugs do offer. Sure they feel fine now, but, in many cases, the side effects out way the purpose of the drug. Many health care workers of men (with what has come to be known as hiv), do recommend their patient seek out other alternative choices too. And what they try to do is make a smoother transition from drug-therapies to alternative remedies. You can always tell a person who is on HARRT or any chemotherapy drug, because they exhibit the physical symptoms of what we’re told is aids rapidly progressing in the body, where is in effect; it appears to be the hiv/aids meds that brings on the symptoms and create the conditions known as aids. For me, this was plenty enough to realize the length people will go to, to test their products, and/or to prove a point: www.altheal.org/toxicity/house.htm
But many aids organizations will say something to the effect of; ‘well, these things do happen but we still gotta save lives.’ This is where I don't see where it is possible because from what I've read in the article, no lives are saved.
Terry -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 5:21 PMFirst, the Liam Scheff story about the children has been being investigated for almost three years, and nothing has yet been found that corroborates it. No one has presented any police reports, any city or state prosecuting attorney notes/actions, no court records, no doctors's statements, and the children have been nowhere to be found.
That being said, it isn't that I _don't_ believe the story...it is that in the face of zero evidence, it is merely a story (and heinous story of criminal monstrosities, at that). I've been waiting a long time for Mr. Scheff to send me third-party-verified documentation, and he didn't refuse to do so -- he simply didn't do so, and I never heard from him again. I'll wait, and as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out as to whether this actually occurred or not. Either way, the story paints a picture that is a warning about the depravity of profiteering with human test subjects.
That brings me to the entire pharmaceutical industry. I have both benefitted and suffered mightily because of the pharmacopious industry. As far as I know, they are one of the richest and well-coordinated industries in the world. I do not trust them. When I was given Vioxx many years ago I stopped taking it within one week; it was that bad. The VA still insists that I need to take it, so I accept the prescription and promptly through it out as soon as I get home. I can go on for quite a while about my experiences with the pharmacopious industry, and I don't even have HIV. I don't trust them any farther than I can throw a post-hole, and I read the things that they publish and finance to be published with a very distrustful eye. I'm not a fan of theirs, but they have made my life livable in the area of seizures that I get after having fractured my skull in 1987. Their answer is not perfect, however. Few of their answers are ever perfect.
Now, you said that there is a paradox when it comes to alternative medicines in that they are not medicines... I have to disagree.
ANY technology that improves, maintains, or cures ailments in people, regardless of its origin, is a "medical technology." If doctors don't believe in it, that is not a reflection on the technology, but on their own belief systems. When I have a nasty cough and cold, coltsfoot tea with honey, slippery elm, and horehound is the cat's meow (the bitterness nearly kills me, but it works better than anything on the shelf). That tea is being used for healing/abating the effects of an ailment, and that makes it officially medicine. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 5:57 PMPhamarcists and Naturopaths keep the economy ticking over. That is there one big benefit as far as many of the amoral money-makers and their slaves in politics are concerned. Personally, I think both are valid entities and both have their snake charmers/oil sellers. Representative democracy would dictate an open and honest Institution's appraisal and delivery of beneficial medicines, but that is dream-world. We live in a world full of egos and fear and every other human frailty that gets in the way of truth and development.
Apart from that, two things spring out at me from this debate, get tested and try everything and use whatever actually works for you as an individual, without bias. Listen to your body without acquiescing to the agendas of others.
One thing I know is lot of the end-science employed by both professions is based on an "average patient" and that doesn't exist, we are far more individual than that and each of out bodies reacts differently and at a different pace to each other.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:53 PMWeeeelllll, since you asked for it Wally here's the New York Press story on one of the nurse who spoke out. You made a pretty astute observation as far as why wasn't this reported no police reports and such. These are Black and Latino children, and a few underclass white children! Not the children of prominent affluent white color or ordinary proletarian white people. Since when did this country really really really really give a damn about a black child, for not being the model for what is to be considered a perfect society? Also consider, this is in New York City, and I personally know who things can get swept under the carpet, or in this case, under the subway tracks.
I guess the citizens of Germany had asked the same questions (as to why this wasn’t reported) when the antics of a self proclaimed Prophet/Profit proclaimed himself lord and master of the world, and got away with his dirty deeds right in the eyes of the world. And like most atrocities, we normally don’t hear about this until after the fact; after the damage has been done.
Your mistrust of large pharmaceutical companies is pretty much like my mistrust of the major media; they both lie so well and we keep going back for more. So I would doubt that the New York Times, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, CBS, and all the major Time/Warner own media outlets would cover this story. But this brave Sistah offers her view and observation on what was taking place while working at ICC. After all, she was a participating nurse (thinking she was doing the right thing to save lives) until she just couldn’t take it any more. I don’t think she has anything to gain from speaking out, before you, or anyone else discredits her. Also, this is a working class Black Women, whose word is always doubted, and then made to look uneducated by the major media: www.nypress.com/18/30/news...mscheff.cfm
Oh, and for the cold you mentioned (in regards to herbal remedies): Grapefruit Seed Extract works every time. Do a google search.
Terry
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:48 PM
Terry I appreciate your standing in for me here for whatever reasons you feel..I thank you so much for acknowledging me in my Fight against the AIDS Establishment. I probably have spent way to much time and Energy in sharing my experience and My walk with the HIV Industry with other Guys on the internet I sometimes get exhausted and even get heat from OTHER Dissidents as well HIV protagonists and I Do feel like giving up..Again thank you!
I agree that anyone shouldn’t go ‘cold turkey’ off their meds because the ‘withdrawal symptoms can be more shocking to the body, then like coming off heroin.
Terry this happened with me! When I Stopped my poisonous Drug regime Combivir and Viramune I had Toxic Withdrawals so bad after 30 days that I collapsed in a state of "Chronic fatigue" it was like being dead but with a heart beat.. The After taste and Rusty lining in my esophagus was so bad and gross..One of My teeth popped like gun powder..My Sebaceous glands that could no longer allow me to Sweat during the 6 years of the Drugs began healing and I craved water so much..My hair thinned dramatically..My Sex drive was affected.. but this doesn't hapen to everyone Some People have been lucky.
As coming off any drug that’s harsh to the body, (legal or illegal), the detoxifing and withdrawal process can do some serious damage, if you don’t know what you’re doing.
My detoxification has been a Success so far Terry.
The only thing with the hiv therapy drugs is that the person is told to take them for life; keep in mind that these are strong chemotherapy drugs
blog.myspace.com/hivisalie
Inspite of the Countless Illnesses and Destructive DNA Destruction these drugs cause Most Guys relate HIV drugs to that of Tylenol or Ibuprofen when even the disclaimers for those drugs always refer to LIVER FAILURE..
. And many aren’t aware of the long-term damage these products can have on the liver and other organs, and the mental damage these drugs do offer.
Terry most Guys who take these Drugs don't even Question they JUST BELIEVE their HIV Specialists.
Common side effects of AZT include nausea, headache, changes in body fat, and discoloration of fingernails and toenails. More severe side effects include Life Threatening Anemia and Bone Marrow suppression.
AZT/ZIDOVUDINE (Well known Cancer drug or Carcinogen)
_____________________________________________________
TIPRANAVIR(Protease Inhibitor):
Intracranial Hemmorhaging, Hepatoxcicity, Fatality.etc..
RESCRIPTOR(Non-Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor):
Fat Redistribution,Abnormal Cardiac Rythm,Peripheral Vascular Disorder,Migraine,Hypertension,Gastrointestinal Disorder,Dry Mouth,Decrease in Appetite,Thrombocytopenia,Bruising,Spleen Disorder,Edema,Abdominal Cramps,Malaise,Hepatic Failure,Acute Kidney failure and so much More.
SUSTIVA(Non-Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor):
Pregnancy: Women should not become pregnant or breastfeed while taking SUSTIVA. SERIOUS BIRTH DEFECTS have been seen in children of women treated with SUSTIVA.Rash,Dizziness, trouble sleeping or concentrating, drowsiness, and/or unusual dreams,SEVERE DEPRESSION, strange thoughts, or angry behavior have been reported by a small number of patients taking SUSTIVA (efavirenz). There have been a few reports of suicide but it is not known if SUSTIVA was the cause.Changes in body fat have been seen in some patients taking anti-HIV medicines. The cause and long-term effects are not known at this time.Other common side effects of SUSTIVA taken with other anti-HIV medicines include: tiredness, upset stomach, vomiting, and diarrhea..
SERIOUS Psychiactric Problems.
INVIRASE(Protease Inhibitor):
Changes in body fat,Increase Triglycerides,Nausea,Vomiting,Abdominal Pain,Tiredness,Pneumonia,Buffalo Hump,Peripheral Wasting,(IRS)Immune Reconstitution Syndrome,Asthenia,Buccal Mucosa Ulceration,Mucosa Damage,Peripheral Neuropathy,Headache,Musculoskeletal Pain,Myalgia,Rash and More.
NEVIRAPINE(Non-Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor):
VIRAMUNE(Nevirapine) can cause SEVERE, LIFE-THREATENING FATAL Liver disease and skin reactions that can cause death. These reactions occur most often during the first 18 weeks of treatment, but can occur later.Other side effects that patients have experienced include nausea, fatigue, fever, headache, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain and myalgia. Changes in body fat may occur in patients receiving antiretroviral therapy. Immune reconstitution syndrome has been reported in patients treated with combination ARV therapy.
SEVERE, LIFE THREATENING (FATAL) Skin Rashes,Steven Johnsons Syndrome,Toxic Epidermal Necrolysis,Hypersensitivity,Organ Dysfunction..
NORVIR(Protease Inhibitor):
The list of Illnesses or Side Effects from NORVIR is Not Complete.
Liver Problems,Feelings of Weekness,Feelings of Tiredness,Nausea,Vomiting,Diarhea,Loss of Appetite,Abdominal Pain,changes in taste, tingling or Numbness in hands,feet, and lips, Headaches, and Dizziness,Pancreatitis,hyperglycemia,Changes in body fat or Buffalo Hump and Death.
ZIAGEN(Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor)
SERIOUS,FATAL Hypersensitivity.
Multi-Organ Syndrome>>Fever,Rash,Gastrointestinal,Diarhea,Abdominal Pain,Vomiting,Pharymgitis,Death..
VIRACEPT(Protease inhibitor):
The List of Side Effects or Illnesses is Not complete.
Diarhea,Nausea,Gas,Rash,Leukopenia,Neutropenia,Changes in body fat,Hyperglycemia,Other SERIOUS Side effects NOT listed.
EPZICOM(Abacavir and Lamivudine):
Can Cause LIFE THREATENING Symptoms,Low Blood Pressure and Death.
KALETRA(Protease Inhibitor):
FATAL-Liver Problems,Pancreatitis,Headache,Nausea,Vomiting,Abdominal pain. etc..
TRIZIVIR((NRTI)
(Albacavir Sulfate + Lamivudine + Zidovudine): SERIOUS and sometimes FATAL Hypersensitivity to one component Abacavir,LIFE-THREATENING Hypertension or DEATH..Hematologic Toxicity,Neutropenia and SEVERE Anemia,Lactic Acidosis,SEVERE Hepatomegaly,SEVERE Steatosis..
CRIXIVAN(Protease Inhibitor):
This List of Side effects(Illnesses) is Not Complete.
Kidney Stones(Which can Lead to Kidney Problems,Kidney Failure and Kidney Infections that Spread),Hemolytic Anemia(Rapid Break down of Red Blood Cells,Hyperglycemia(Ketoacidosis),SEVERE Muscle Pain,Nausea,Vomiting,Controlled Eating,(Loss or Decrease in Appetite)Buffalo Hump,Feelings of Weakness,Sore Throat,Changes in taste,Headaches,Dizziness,Yellowing of the Skin and eyes,Acid Regurgitation..This Drug can cause LIFE-THREATENING Situations taken with othe HIV drugs.
VIDEX(Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor):
FATAL/NON FATAL Pancreatitis,LACTIC ACIDOSIS,SEVERE Hepatomegaly with Steatosis,Retinal Changes and Optic Neuritis,Peripheral Neuropathy..
LEXIVA(Protease Inhibitor):
SEVERE and LIFE-THREATENING Skin reactions including Stephen-Johnson Syndrome..
EMTRIVA(NRTI):
Lactic acidosis (a buildup of acid in the blood),Changes in body fat,SEVERE HEPATOMEGALY with Steatosis,FAT Redistribution(Buffalo Hump),(IRS) Immune Reconstitution Syndrome,Nausea,Abdominal Pain,Yellow Skin and Eyes,Diarhea..
REYATAZ(PI):
Rash,Yellowing of the Skin and Eyes,Changes in Heart Rythm(Heart beat),Hyperglycemia,Changes in body Fat,Nausea,Stomach pain,Dizziness,Trouble Sleeping,Depression,Muscle Pain,Numbness-Tingling-Burning of the Hands and Feet..
Combined with OTHER Anti-HIV Drugs REYATAZ can cause SERIOUS LIFE THREATENING Side effects(Illnesses) even Death.
AGENERASE (PI):
SEVERE or LIFE-THREATENING Rash,Diarrhea,Nausea,Vomiting,Changes in taste,Buffalo Hump,Changes in body fat,Diabetes,High triglycerides,Tingling around the Mouth,Depression and Mood Problems..
TRUVADA(NRTI):
(FATAL)LACTIC ACIDOSIS(build up of Acid in the Blood),SEVERE Hepatomegaly with Steatosis(Fat in the Liver),Hepatoxcicity(SERIOUS) Liver Problems,Headache,Nausea,Dizziness,Rash,Vomiting,Skin Discoloration..
EPIVIR (NRTI):
LACTIC ACIDOSIS,SEVERE HEPATOMEGALY,(IRS) Immune Reconstitution Syndrome,Fat Redistribution,Stomatitis,Hyperglycemia,SEVERE Anemias,Muscle Weakness,Parasthesia,Peripheral Neuropathy,Abnormal Breathing,Alopecia,Rash,Weakness,Peripheral Wasting,Facial Wasting...
Patients Should Be Informed...That Anti-Retroviral Therapy and Long term Health Effects are NOT KNOWN AT THIS TIME.(Pdf Page # 11.)
COMBIVIR(Lamivudine/Zidovudine):
SEVERE HEMATOLOGIC TOXCICITY,Neutropenia and SEVERE ANEMIA,Lactic Acidosis,SEVERE Hepatomegaly with Steatosis,Bone Marrow Suppression,Myopathy and Myositis,Mutagenic,Fat Redistribution(Buffalo Hump),Peripheral Wasting,Facial Wasting,"Cushingoid Appearance",Stepehn -Johnson Syndrome,Peripheral Neuropathy,Seizures,Alopecia,Cardiomyopathy,Gynecomastia..
"There is No Known Antidote for Combivir"
ATRIPLA(Cocktail ~Sustiva,Emtriva, and Viread Combined)
SEVERE Hepatomegaly with Steatosis,LACTIC ACIDOSIS,Decrease in Bone Mineral Density,Fat Redistribution,Immune Recostitution Syndrome,SERIOUS PSYCHIATRIC SYMPTOMS,DEPRESSION,SUICIDE ATTEMPTS,AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR,DELUSIONS,PARANOIA & PSYCHOSIS {like Symptoms}, Rash, In Monkey's>> Bone Toxicity DIAGNOSED AS OSTEOMALACIA..Palpitations,Tinnitus,Gynecomastia,Asthenia,Myopathy,Myalgia,SKIN AND SUBCUTANEOUS TISSUE DISORDERS..
ZERIT
VIREAD
HIVID
RETROVIR
_______________________________________________________
FUZEON(Fusion Inhibitor):
Pain and Discomfort,Erythema,Induration,Nodules,Cysts,
Pruritis,Ecchymosis,Systemic Hypersensitivity,Rash,Fever,Nausea,Vomiting,Chills,Elevated Serum Liver Transaminases,Anti-Enfuviritide Antibodies WHICH CAN CAUSE FALSE POSITIVE HIV TEST,(IRS) Immune Constitution Syndrome,Long-term Animal Carcinogenicity HAVE NOT BEEN CONDUCTED.Thrombocytopenia,Fever,Gullain-Barr Syndrome(FATAL),Constipation,Abdominal Pain,Insomnia,Depression,SUICIDE ATTEMPTS,Hepatic Steatosis..
blog.myspace.com/index.cfm
Sure they feel fine now, but, in many cases, the side effects out way the purpose of the drug. Many health care workers of men (with what has come to be known as hiv), do recommend their patient seek out other alternative choices too. And what they try to do is make a smoother transition from drug-therapies to alternative remedies.
There are Thousands of Independent theories on HIV/AIDS Treatments and Advice by each Individual HIV doctor or Specialist..for Instance One of the 7 Docs I had in Fort Lauderdale told me My So-called MEDZ were "time released" like Vitamin c Tablets and I could take My Entire Regime EVERY MORNING Instead of twice a day..when I changed Doctors later on the new Doc told me that he was insane because the medz had to be released every 12 hours..on top of that I was giving myself Testosterone shots and a reccommended trip to a Urologist for check up the Urologist told me who was the Crazy Doc that Suggested Testosterone ? He said I was Overdosing...
You can always tell a person who is on HARRT or any chemotherapy drug, because they exhibit the physical symptoms of what we’re told is aids rapidly progressing in the body, where is in effect; it appears to be the hiv/aids meds that brings on the symptoms and create the conditions known as aids. For me, this was plenty enough to realize the length people will go to, to test their products, and/or to prove a point: www.altheal.org/toxicity/house.htm
Most People Who find us in Denial and Claim the drugs Save Lives or Help anyone Accept it by Faith they don't research...
But many aids organizations will say something to the effect of; ‘well, these things do happen but we still gotta save lives.’ This is where I don't see where it is possible because from what I've read in the article, no lives are saved.
Terry
The War Against AID$ inc Terry is almost Impossible it's up to the International Gay community to FIRE the AID$ and HIV Industry.
Tomás -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:02 PMTomas, you haven't _shared_ anything about yourself except your fear and anger over an HIV test that you play word games with by saying it isn't actually an HIV test. Well, they weren't testing for cotton or oil, they were testing for HIV...guess what kind of test that makes it...
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 11:28 PMa DUBIOUS ANTIBODY TEST. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:07 AMRobert Da Prato, MD, HIV testing specialist for the "US Armed Services"
"I don't recommend people ever getting tested. The reason is I don't know what the tests mean, and I think no one else knows what the tests mean. I’ ve never seen any evidence that what these tests purport to show they're actually showing; namely, the presence of a virus, the presence of an exogenous virus. I really would like to see the electron microscopic data of this, and apparently there is none. There is none where you've done a rigorous isolation protocol." -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:21 AMTomas, I do know what the tests mean, and I'm sorry that you are incapable of accepting the reality that a little virus can inflict upon a person. You don't even understand what an "exogenous virus" is, so please, do not waste my time any further.
What is most laughable is your statement that RNA retroviruses are created from the DNA of human cells... You are an untutored idiot. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:04 AMWhat is most laughable is your statement that RNA retroviruses are created from the DNA of human cells... You are an untutored idiot.
No I said "Generated" remember? You Busted my chops on that one ALREADY..Perhaps I should hire you as my Tutor?
50 cents and hour? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:06 AMdamn Microsoft!
I meant to say * 50 Cents AN Hour* -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:19 AMAwww so thats IT?
Poor liddle dum dum Tomas has a 50 cent an hour job!
Your vocabulary and text writings indicate this so why wouldn't it be true?
Ohh and you ARE a ...liddle twinky who was in pissy shit loaded diapers when I was in High School DO take a look in your mirror if you want to see a Picture of a loser..Ohh wait..what kind of camera DID you use to snap that blurred wasted image of you in your avatar? Ohh I remember...It was either a 1970's Polaroid land Camera..or a VERY cheap-ass webcam!
And Tomas? whats UP with the zero freinds indicator?...Ohh WAIT..yep..your just "Here" to preach the evils of HIV and it's origins like any other "Crusader"..so no "freinds" are needed.
Sorry bout mentioning your Mommy...at least that struck a chord and now we know "who wronged the angry liddle boi". -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:29 AMTomas ,liddle Troubled Twink
If you dont like what is discussed in "Alternative Forums" like this one then...why are you HERE? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:30 AMDuh! uhm..............................................AID$ "ALTERNATIVES"?
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:36 AMJAKE Every One can See you have Resorted to
Childish remarks,
Denialistic Approaches,
Boring one liners that mean absolutley nothing,
cheap shots at me and my Mother that you think should give you some sort of credibility among your so-called friends,
And reason to think the HIV Drugs have caused your Dementia!
I Think HIV WOULD NEVER Want to Infect you because you're to Stupid to infect! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:39 AMoh Sorry Matt
" Too Stupid to Infect"
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 2:51 PMwell, their dissatisfaction with aids meds is not entirely unwarranted. they are truly awful. and the pharmaceutical industry is certainly horrific in many ways, in their priorities and solutions they present and the way they present them. people are right in not trusting them and questioning their motives.
but what is behind questioning the best explanation available for aids? not that all science should not constantly be under question, that's how science functions. but most hiv/aids denial seems to differ from constructive questioning in that it carries along with it insistence on ambiguity. it is the attachment to this ambiguity that seems to motivate most aids denial. the logic and the rhetoric of aids denial reeks of a justification for pre-existing assumptions and behaviors. what are the implications in terms of personal responsibility and actual behavior of having it be completely up in the air what causes and spreads aids? what does that say about the motivations of aids deniers? i'm hesitant to bring it up as it seems cheap but is it not possible that aids denial is largely a way of dealing with the emotional pain of finding out that one is hiv+? or even the fear of becoming hiv+, especially if one has a lifestyle that makes one highly at risk? -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 4:59 PM" i'm hesitant to bring it up as it seems cheap but is it not possible that aids denial is largely a way of dealing with the emotional pain of finding out that one is hiv+? or even the fear of becoming hiv+, especially if one has a lifestyle that makes one highly at risk? " ~Matthew
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Matthew, you've hit a significant nail on the head. I've had many, many "HIV denialists" tell me that they are scared to death to get an HIV test and deal with all that it _might_ entail. They've even admitted to being afraid of just waiting for the results, and they say that no one should have to live through that (they say that as a means of disqualifying the test, etc.).
In your last couple posts you have tied all of the strings together in a cogent and well-thought-out manner, and the only thing I can see that is really missing is the fear/anger component that actually holds such a fabric of self-deceipt together. Sarcasm is veiled anger. Anger springs from fear. Fear frequently springs from having to deal with the unknown. The lashing out without ever deigning to engage in an open discussion is classic virusmyth/HIV denialist behavior...anyone who disagrees with them on any single point is pronounced 100% wrong. In their created ambiguity they have a belief system that manifests itself in strictly enforced polarity; no middle ground and no alternate beliefs are allowed.
I really appreciate your perspective on this. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:10 PM" i'm hesitant to bring it up as it seems cheap but is it not possible that aids denial is largely a way of dealing with the emotional pain of finding out that one is hiv+? or even the fear of becoming hiv+, especially if one has a lifestyle that makes one highly at risk? " ~Matthew
*THERE IS NO PROOF that ANYONE in the World is HIV SPECIFIC or HIV Positive* -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:13 PMWally, and guys,
I wasn't going to Respond here any longer and As Usual The International AIDS CULT will ALWAYS keep the SCAMDEMIC Alive while innocent human beings are being LIED to and MURDERED.
More and More Africans & Gay Men will Die at the Hands of Xtreme Leunatics Such as yourself ,Gallo,Montagnier, and RELIGIOUS Freaks like Fred Phelps,NARTH ,( www.narth.com/index.html )P.A.T.H . and so many others...
The Huge Profits for the Pharmeceutical Industry every year are from GAY MEN standing in line at Health Departments and Pharmacies awaiting their Prescribed doses of LETHAL AIDS DRUGS all for a Scientific Scam that has ONLY MONEY to gain.
While I have admitted here in this forum that I am NOT a Doctor or a Scientist but a so-called "HIV Positive" person you have done nothing but criticize me as if I were a Scientist to play BIBLE games with AND I THINK YOU KNEW THAT.
To be Honest.. during my posts I thought you were Phillip at one point because you had ANSWERED something I had responded to him.. with that being said as you Found it Neccessary to Jump in and "EAT DENIALSTS AS SNACKS" how wonderful and credible of you!
You Guys May call me Whatever you feel Necessary I DON'T CARE because I have accepted that HATRED is in the world and it flows daily in our lives. My past Lifestyle and My Personal Experience as a so-called HIV Patient within the AIDS Establishment gave me a HARD REALITY CHECK on JUST HOW Gay Men are Not Welcomed here on Planet Earth. We are shunned and asked to be hidden and what makes me even MORE Angry is the Fact that The High dollar "Gay Industry" Gaydotcom and its affiliates are willing and able to do exactly what you are doing.. absolute Betrayal.
ITS NO SECRET that if the International Gay Community Would Open their Eyes to the GREAT HIV/AID$ $CAM the whole Empire would Crumble! The MODERN JIM JONES Tragedy against Gay Men has been reincarnated into a mass scale of Genocide.
You Made Comments earlier that Gallo and Montagnier is OLD news or something to that effect..this is TYPICAL of AIDS Apologists that the HIV Hypothesis MUST Change Constantly in order to be Scientifically Correct.. it's like asking me to pick up a Bible for the first time and Start with the New Testament First "GOD Only Knows" what kind of Doctrines I could make up..
As for all of your OTHER Responses.. Links..and references I have looked at them and read most of the PDF Files Print..I welcome MAINSTREAM Information because it ONLY confirms the Dissident Perspective. I subscribe to POZ magazine and I read up on the Latest Studies from the Medical Journals.. I may Not be able to Isolate viruses or do Mathematical models of Viruses (yet) but I am No Dummy..I can read and Understand Clearly. What I WON"T DO IS ACCEPT ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAVE TO SAY Regarding Dubious NON SPECIFIC HIV TESTING or PICS of the Lochness Monster!
People Who Refer to Rethinkers or Dissidents as Denialists and Deniers have Built a religious based Science in their Own Mindset it's like Protectors of the temple of the great HIV god and the fear of Letting Go of the Myth because they are in Denial or just $cared $hitless.
I notice for Some reason..god only knows.. You Despise Microsoft for inventing Copy and Paste feature and by the way Wally I found the Perfect place for you to debate since Straw men, ad hominem, ad Nausium etc are your faves.. If Most of the Guys here Cannot see your intent then they too are blinded by Science and the pathetic Myth of HIV and AID$.
www.CARM.org -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 8:44 PMI'm not quite sure what Planet you think you are living on Tomas
But its not "Earth"
You are a BITTER angry Young Man. and one of many from "your Generation"
Good thing MY generation is here and will still be here to save your ass.
Who was it that made you so ANGRY Tomas... a family Member Perhaps?..or might it have been a man who died in your arms from the very Disease wich you deny exists"
Tribe Members on this thread are being quite tolerant of you. Personally,I don't think threads like this one deserve a reply..but..thats just Me! It was YOU who changed the original content of the thread...wasn't it Tomas?
MadJacks original thread was Hijacked by you here...right Tomas? "Do you care about the status of your sexual partners" has Nothing to Do with "AIDS Denialist's" like yourself.
A "Freindly Reminder" Tomas..."Hijacking a Thread" is against the TOU. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:53 PMONE MORE TIME JAKE I Do Not RESPOND to AID$ DENIAL$T$!
AS Terry Said Earlier if you want to be one of the AID$ Poster Boys for the HIV Industry then go ahead but ranting about your so-called foreknowledge of the QUACK POT theories of the Great HIV Myth to me is a Total waste of your time!
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:55 PMWeeeelllll, since you asked for it Wally here's the New York Press story on one of the nurse who spoke out. You made a pretty astute observation as far as why wasn't this reported no police reports and such. These are Black and Latino children, and a few underclass white children! Not the children of prominent affluent white color or ordinary proletarian white people. Since when did this country really really really really give a damn about a black child, for not being the model for what is to be considered a perfect society? Also consider, this is in New York City, and I personally know who things can get swept under the carpet, or in this case, under the subway tracks.
I guess the citizens of Germany had asked the same questions (as to why this wasn’t reported) when the antics of a self proclaimed Prophet/Profit proclaimed himself lord and master of the world, and got away with his dirty deeds right in the eyes of the world. And like most atrocities, we normally don’t hear about this until after the fact; after the damage has been done.
Your mistrust of large pharmaceutical companies is pretty much like my mistrust of the major media; they both lie so well and we keep going back for more. So I would doubt that the New York Times, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, CBS, and all the major Time/Warner own media outlets would cover this story. But this brave Sistah offers her view and observation on what was taking place while working at ICC. After all, she was a participating nurse (thinking she was doing the right thing to save lives) until she just couldn’t take it any more. I don’t think she has anything to gain from speaking out, before you, or anyone else discredits her. Also, this is a working class Black Women, whose word is always doubted, and then made to look uneducated by the major media: www.nypress.com/18/30/news...mscheff.cfm
Oh, and for the cold you mentioned (in regards to herbal remedies): Grapefruit Seed Extract works every time. Do a google search.
Terry -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:07 PMTerry, I've heard all of this before... Do you really believe that the police did not do there jobs here because of the color of the children's skin? Do you really believe that?
I'm sorry, but you've proven nothing in regard to the validity of Sheff's story.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:26 PMJAKE FYI
MAD JACK KASH WROTE:
*I'm quite interested to see the responses to this: *
PERHAPS HE SHOULD HAVE SAID:
*I'm quite interested to see the responses to this with the exception of those who Question HIV/AIDS"
ONE More thing Jake I was lambasted and taken to the woodshed by your FORUM AID$ Apologists here and he Bitched me out for copying and pasting (which is god sent)..he also ad`nausiem bitched me out for setting up Straw man Arguments which in your last post is ALL you DID!
Jake those of You that Enjoy the MONEY HUNGRY GREED & POLITICS OF THE AID$ Cult Make me more Bitter when so many Innocent Gay Men are subjected to such LIES AND DECEIT.. as far as im concerned you couldn't save a penny in a Jar nonetheless my ass.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:25 AMTomas, the stand you have taken in regards to HIV is in fact a death sentence to anyone who heeds your unproven armchair science. I've lost many friends because of your heroes, and you are simply too dimwitted to grasp that you are merely a mouthpiece of their anti-gay death machine. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 8:58 AMMy hero? why you are my Hero Wally. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:01 AMtomas, your writing reads like a pamphlet written by a crackhead. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:13 AMMatthew and Let me guess YOUR in FAVOR of SLANDER,Half-truths, and CORRUPT Pseudo Science that lurks and preys in Alternative Forums such as this one.. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:47 AMwhy did you capitalize "Let" in this sentence?
"Matthew and Let me guess YOUR in FAVOR of SLANDER,Half-truths, and CORRUPT Pseudo Science that lurks and preys in Alternative Forums such as this one.. " -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 10:16 AMTomas..well ?
Your one liddle scrawny Post-Aushwitz Twinky that got F's in High school for:
Writing Skills
Proper English Dictation
Spelling Proper
and Punctuation
Well Golly Gee Mr Wilson! Tomas Postings read like a little girl who forgot to take her Prozac!
Yeah Prozac..you know that stuff they give angry liddle bois who were wronged by their Mommy so now they hate the World! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:19 AMPROZAC~ SUICIDALITY in Children and Adolescents Anti-depressants cause INCREASED the RISK of Suicidal thinking and Behavior.
Anxiety,Panic Attacks,Impulsivity,Chest pain,Face edema,Congestive heart failure,Shock,Phlebletis,Vascualr Headache,Increase in Appetite,Nausea and Vomiting.
pi.lilly.com/prozac.pdf
"What is maturity ? Maturity is the ability to control anger and settle differences without violence or destruction. Maturity is patience. It is the willingness to pass up immediate pleasure in favor of the long-term gain. Maturity is perseverance, the ability to sweat out a project or a situation in spite of heavy opposition and discouraging set-backs. Maturity is the capacity to face unpleasantness and frustration, discomfort and defeat, without complaint or collapse. Maturity is humility. It is being big enough to say, "I was wrong." And, when right, the mature person need not experience the satisfaction of saying, "I told you so."
Maturity is the ability to make a decision and stand by it. The immature spend their lives exploring endless possibilities; then they do nothing.
Maturity means dependability, keeping one's word, coming through in a crisis. The immature are masters of the alibi. They are the confused and the disorganized. Their lives are a maze of broken promises, former friends, unfinished business, and good intentions that somehow never materialize.
Maturity is the art of living in peace with that which we cannot change, the courage to change that which should be changed -- and the wisdom to know the difference."
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
slan·der (slndr) Pronunciation Key
n.
Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
v. slan·dered, slan·der·ing, slan·ders
v. tr.
To utter a slander about. See Synonyms at malign.
v. intr.
To utter or spread slander.
slan·der /ˈslændər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[slan-der] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.
–verb (used with object) 4. to utter slander against; defame.
–verb (used without object) 5. to utter or circulate slander.
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[Origin: 1250–1300; (n.) ME s(c)laundre < AF esclaundre, OF esclandre, alter. of escandle < LL scandalum cause of offense, snare (see scandal); (v.) ME s(c)laundren to cause to lapse morally, bring to disgrace, discredit, defame < OF esclandrer, deriv. of esclandre]
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:28 AMMatthew,
i see because i am a dissident you must think you are superior and perfect ..HIVism and the cult of personality...
THINK AGAIN.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:32 AMWally My So-called HIV" case Manager" and I Broke the Rules Once we dated for a While and I Know the Arm Chair $cience You Speak of and It Would Be No different if he had Worked for IBM he would have Still made 60 k or more a year with a Luxury Office.. Yeah I was the Dimwitt back then until I Opened my eyes to the GREED Behind every Desk in the AID$ Industry.
Again I lost My friends too believing (At that Time) the Great HIV god took their lives... and it was Nazi arm chair $cience that MURDERED them all "in the name of the PROBABLE Cause of AIDS".
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 5:38 AMStop baiting people. It's see-through.....
Lets get to the basic-core... fuck whether you believe people are dying daily from AIDS or not....AIDS WHICH is proven to be the caused by HIV........ and AIDS weakens the immune system to the point many diseases will infiltrate the system and cause you sickness...a sickness you can not fully healthfully fight.
Some people just need more complicated answers to simple questions.
It's not always necessary.
the original question though centered around sexual practices and those who care about there partners status.... it's quite relevant to question AIDS/HIV in that context while answering the question... but so much shit was flung towards those who live daily with with HIV and AIDS and prolly read this blog/message board tribe. Tomas you are doing a fucking diservice to those in there fucking death beds dying. . . .filling out forms... prepping for final sickness. No more attention for you.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 6:43 AMThanks so much for your "Laundry List" of Antiretroviral Side effects liddle frightened Boi!
Now go do as you were told and READ the warnings on your bottle of Tylenol LOL
Tomas
your a Joke and we are ALL having a good laugh at your expense
But of course as an anti-AIDS Crusader you can't see that...just as The Christian Fundamentalists can't see "other normal Christians" luaghing at them.
If nothing else...Thanks for the laughs "Twink Boi".
and one more thing liddle boi...exaclty How the FUCK can I be an "AIDS Denialist"? I have lived with it since you were just out ofDiapers and know more about AIDS than you ever will.
Time to change your soiled Diaper and put on a clean one...Boi. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 8:54 AM{Thanks so much for your "Laundry List" of Antiretroviral Side effects liddle frightened Boi!}
JAKE NOT ONLY ARE YOU IN DENIALISTIC APPROACHES TO HIV/AID$ BUT YOU ARE NOW A FREAK OF NATURE!
Pins & Needles,Tooth loss,Alopecia,Facial and Muscle Wasting ...HUNCH BACK & FRANKENSTEIN??? but he's ALIVE!
I was the Nice Little Gay Boy Who did everything they told me and I believed them! IF HIV Causes GROWN MEN TO WEAR DIAPERS Versus www.STAYNEGATIVE.ORG Immediate Response to your so-called CULTIC BELIEF SYSTEM then Wallow in your OWN Denial or Shut the Fuck up Jake.
ALSO Trying to Hurt me By Bringing up my Mother Makes you look foolish! and you are NO Different than FRED PHELPS HIMSELF.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 8:56 AMMAD and you are Perpetrating Death and Massive Iatrogenocide.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:04 PMWhatever you say, Tomas...whatever you say.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:23 AM" *THERE IS NO PROOF that ANYONE in the World is HIV SPECIFIC or HIV Positive* " ~Tomas
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There is in fact proof. You just don't understand it (as you have already said).
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 9:55 PMWally, Jake, Philip, et al
So much cannon fodder, so little actual intelligence among you...
First of all, Jake, I've got you beat. I've had full-blown AIDS for nearly 4 decades, literally since the day I was born with the worst case of thrush that the doctor had ever seen in his life. Apparently, AIDS-indicator diseases run in my family -- I've had one sister who's had toxoplasmosis, another who's had hairy cell leukoplakia, a father who had chronic staph infections as a child and chronic flus and pneumonias as an adult, a grandfather who died at the age of 42 from sepsis after a lifetime of chronic opportunistic infections.
I myself have had chronic candidiasis, chronic staph, numerous bouts of pneumonia, multiple autoimmune disorders, chronic diarrhea -- you name it, I've had it.
I had all of these diseases for roughly 30 years before I tested positive for HIV. Now, as I see it, there's three possible explanations for this: 1) HIV (in addition to all it's other science fiction abilities) is able to travel through time to cause AIDS 30 years before you get it (hey, it might explain those long latency periods everyone talks about -- HIV doesn't go into hiding, it just hops in its time machine and attacks you 10 or 20 years in the future); 2) I got HIV from a guy who pulled out, removed the condom, and jerked off on my ass (which is like getting pregnant from a toilet seat, according to every doctor I've talked to since my [mis]diagnosis); or 3) having a HISTORY of autoimmune disease can cause one to test false positive (actually, there are over 60 different health conditions known to foul HIV tests, and about a dozen of them apply to me.)
If #3 is the one that applies, that implies that AIDS may well come BEFORE a positive HIV test in some, many, most, or perhaps even all cases. (Anyone here ever actually READ Duesberg? ....Or do you guys get off to slandering a man whom you know nothing about?) This is well in line with Duesberg's contention that HIV is nothing more than just another opportunistic infector, which begs the question, how was it proven that HIV actually *causes* AIDS, as opposed to being just one more opportunistic infection? $50 to anyone here who can answer that question and supply the name of the scientist or scientists who did the necessary experiments to prove causation as opposed to opportunism. While you're at it, you might want to inform Dr. Luc Montagnier, the discoverer of HIV, because according to Nobel laureate Dr. Kary Mullis, he personally asked Montagnier that very question and Montagnier couldn't answer it.
As for those in this forum who've slandered Duesberg, let's set the record straight. Dr. Duesberg was nominated for the Nobel Prize decades ago, for being the first scientist to map a retroviral genome (in Rous Sarcoma Virus), and for discovering the retroviral oncogene (cancer gene), also in RSV. In addition, your sainted Dr. Bob Gallo once said (and I quote), "Peter knows more about retroviruses than any man alive." (Note that they are on a first name basis). Hey Wally, (if that is indeed your real name), ever been elected to the National Academy of Sciences? How about being nominated for the Nobel Prize? What about winning the NIH's Outstanding Investigator Grant five years in a row? Are you on a first-name basis with a co-discoverer of HIV? No? Then you aren't qualified to critique Duesberg's choice of shoes, much less his scientific achievements. A word of advice: Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool.... If you call yourself an expert on retroviruses and you don't know this trivia about the most famous (and controversial) retrovirologist since Peyton Rous, then I have to wonder in what other areas the size of your ignorance rivals the size of your mouth.
Incidentally, Wally, while I've got you on the ropes, if you'd bothered to read the captions on those "photos" you sent, (you CAN read, can't you?) then you'd have seen that most of them plainly state that they are ILLUSTRATIONS. I've seen illustrations of unicorns, dragons, gremlins, goblins, and Homer Simpson -- are you about to contend that any of the above actually exist? As for the one or two that were actual electron micrographs, none were of actual viral isolate, since all were plainly more than 90% impurity. Maybe the rest of these idiots don't know the importance of viral isolation and purification, but since you claim to be a scientist, perhaps you already know that viral isolation is essential both to Koch's Postulates, and also to the standards set forth by the Pasteur Institute in 1973 for proof of the existence of a single retroviral entity (as opposed to cellular debris or a "soup" of multiple retroviruses). (By the way, being a Christian Scientist doesn't count -- what's your degree in, intermediate ballroom dancing?) Find me a picture of PURIFIED HIV VIRAL ISOLATE, published in a reputable scientific journal, or shut the fuck up before you further expose your ignorance.
You wrote, "The assertions of Peter Duesberg and Eleni Papadopulos and Bryan J. Ellison that HIV does not cause AIDS are still UNPROVEN. Even they won't go out on a limb to say they are 100% correct... If you read their remarks carefully, this will begin to stick out like a sore thumb." -- As I recall, Galileo never claimed to be 100% correct (and he wasn't). It was the Church that claimed infallibility. That places Duesberg, Papadopulos, et al in pretty good company.
Also, as I recall, in science the burden of proof rests on those who postulate a hypothesis, not on those who critique it. Of course the dissidents' cases are unproven, but you neglect to mention that this is also true for the HIV/AIDS hypothesis itself -- or are you, as a self-proclaimed "scientist" privy to information that us mere mortals are not? If you have any actual proof, produce it. If not, refer to the last statement of the previous paragraph. Put up or shut up, it's as simple as that. (Incidentally, which side has been given more time and money to utterly fail to produce proof of their assertions?)
Philip, are you familiar with the origins of the word "quack"? It's derived from the German word "quaksalber" (sp?), which means "quicksilver", referring to mercury, a highly poisonous element that was once used to treat syphilis. Essentially, therefore, "quack" means "poisoner". You're quick to call dissidents dangerous, but what about those who peddle highly cytotoxic AIDS cocktail drugs that have already proven to be more deadly than HIV itself?
BTW, Philip, if you wish to pretend to be an expert on HIV, you might at least learn to spell Duesberg's name, ya dumb dipwick. You're worse than Wally -- your ignorance actually exceeds the size of your mouth (and that's saying a lot.)
Jake, I've saved the best for last. You claim that HIV tests are so accurate, but I can prove to you mathematically, using well-known statistical principles, that they aren't even a 10th as accurate as you think.
The "accuracy" of any test is measured in sensitivity and specificity. (I put "accuracy" in quotes because that word is never used by knowledgeable professionals -- ONLY by laymen.) Sensitivity refers to the test's likelihood to produce a true positive in infected individuals (as opposed to a false negative), and conversely, specificity describes the test's likelihood of producing a true negative in uninfected individuals, (as opposed to a false positive.)
The NIH's website claims that HIV tests boast (and I quote) "sensitivity and specificity in excess of 98%". I've heard claims even higher than this, and for the purpose of this example I'll go even higher -- how about 99.5%? Does that sound like a nice fair figure for me to use for the purpose of blowing your idiotic faith in these ridiculously unverified tests clean out of the water?
According to Baye's Theorem (look it up -- it's a standard statistical law,) where mass testing is done in a population where the actual instance of the condition being tested for is low, there will be high percentages of false positives. In fact, where the incidence is less than the specificity gap of the test in question, the test will actually produce more false positives than true positives.
According to the US Census Bureau, there are approximately 300 million Americans. According to the CDC, approximately 1.1 million of them are estimated to be infected with HIV. Divide A into B and you get a seroprevalence of 0.367%. This is the estimated actual incidence of HIV in the general American population.
Now, if we did mass HIV testing of a group of 100,000 randomly-selected Americans, using a test whose sensitivity and specificity were 99.5%, this would mean that statistically, we could expect 367 of them to be HIV positive before we tested them, and the other 99,633 would be HIV negative.
Now, using a test whose sensitivity and specificity are 99.5%, that means that of the 367 HIV-positives, about 2 (0.5%) would test false-negative, and the other 365 (99.5%) would test true-positive. Out of the 99,633 HIV-negatives, 498 (0.5%) would test false-positive, while the other 99,135 would test true-negative.
Let's break that down:
99,133 TRUE NEGATIVES
498 FALSE POSITIVES
365 TRUE POSITIVES
2 FALSE NEGATIVES
(498-365) / 365 = 36.4% MORE FALSE POSITIVES THAN TRUE POSITIVES
I know -- GOTTA be fuzzy math, right? Wally, Philip? Which of you self-important so-called "scientists" is competent to operate a calculator, much less to debunk my math? I challenge either of you idiots (or for that matter, anyone here) to find any evidence of error or manipulation of the numbers on my part. Wanna make a wager? Name the amount, and then write the check, 'cause you will have just made a losing bet. There's nothing wrong with the math, that's just how Baye's Law works when the actual incidence (in this case 0.367%) is lower than the specificity gap (0.5%) of the test.
...Suddenly, 99.5% "accuracy" doesn't sound quite so impressive, now does it?
Incidentally, I will accept any side wager anyone wants to make, in any amount, that there is any HIV test, ELISA, WB, Viral Load, flouroscopic, or otherwise, whose sensitivity and specificity has ever been verified by actual isolation of the virus (PURIFICATION, NOT CO-CULTURE with Leukemiac cells, which are well-documented to spew all sorts of random retroviral matter naturally) from those who test positive, and not in those who test negative. Easy money here -- all you have to do is name the amount, submit a reference to the literature that proves such a thing has ever been done to verify ANY HIV test of any type, and collect. Any takers?
Don't say I didn't warn you when it turns out to be a sucker bet-- the original HIV tests were "verified" using the combination of illness and belonging to a "risk group", rather than actual isolation, and all tests since were "verified" by how well they agreed with the previous unverified tests -- hence the claim that today's HIV tests are more accurate than the tests that even the orthodoxy admit were highly inaccurate is purely an illusion created by the fact that the current tests are in excess of 98% sensitive and specific to the previous unverified tests, which have long been admitted to be highly inaccurate. In short, HIV tests now as then are tests for chronic exposure to the bodily fluids of others, such as might occur in IV drug users, transfusion/transplant recipients, anal receptive partners, etc., and/or whether you've had a history of chronic illness (all of the above of which are known to cause false positives on many different antibody and antigen tests, not just HIV tests.) Want to prove me wrong? Name the amount and submit proof that any HIV test in existence was ever verified using attempted HIV isolation and purification as the gold standard. C'mon, somebody take the bet -- I need the money -- being smarter than the so-called "scientists" in this forum doesn't pay as much as being a scientist.
--- Gos
--- gos@nerosopeningact.com
"Nobody here but us heretics..."
P.S. Tomas, while I'm shooting everyone else in this room like fish in a barrel, don't think I'm gonna leave you out. I can't believe you let this trio of mental pygmies intimidate you into position they've got you in. You're better than this. None of them having an IQ higher than 30, it takes all 3 of them to equal the IQ of our current President (living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.) Don't counter them with someone else's arguments against one facet of this megalomultifacted fraud, tell them what you yourself have learned from experience, from research, and from carefully weighing the facts. Better yet, stop arguing with fools, lest onlookers become confused as to who is the bigger fool -- the fool or the fool who argues with a fool.
...as Dennis Miller used to say (since we're such sticklers for attribution of reference here), "And guess what, folks, that's the news and I am OUTTA HERE!......" -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:21 PMGos,
Why are you not talking about the actual photomicrographs of the HIV virus, then? I know which one were illustrations, and I know which ones were actual images. Why did you not address that? Why would you think that I would ignore the actual images in favor of the illustrations? Really, you're being pretty silly there...
I've presented a far more balanced and broad-spectrum view of the entire HIV world than either you or Tomas. I haven't claimed to espouse a single thing either of you have said (largely because you are both entirely wrong about me). Why can't you just DISCUSS the things I bring up instead of boilerplating the forum with the writings of others that have nothing to do with our CONVERSATION here? What is your major malfunction that you refuse to engage in open discussion and share your knowledge?
Neither of you have actually asked me what it is that I do believe. No, you simply attack me out of a vast well of ignorance.
How can anyone take you two seriously if you can't even stay on topic and discuss things like human beings? In every link I posted there was some truth, there was some hypothesizing/theorizing, and there was occasionally some incorrect information. You have failed in every instance to help me understand your position by ignoring the truth and focusing on the parts that seem to offend your sensibilities. Why is that? Are we not men? Can we not discuss this rationally? So far, neither you nor Tomas has been rational in any of this.
Let's just start at the basics of RNA retroviruses, m'kay? Everything you said seems to ignore the fact that there is a virus at play here, and it has known characteristics. Let's share some knowledge about these viruses before we get our panties in a twist, eh?
It is truly a let-down to continuously attempt to engage you and Tomas in a discussion, only to find that you are actually unwilling or incapable of discussing anything rationally at all. Really, I can only pity you, becuase I do not hate you.
Warmest regards,
Wally -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:44 PMWally I have Come to the Conclusion that you are an AID$ DENIALI$T Just Like Jake..Greed.
I am Beginning to wonder if you are related to Moore and Bennett or perhaps you guys go to the same Gym...oh shoot I did it again Another Straw man ! -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:28 AMIf you have come to that conclusion, then you are even more stupid than I could have ever imagined. You haven't asked me a single question in regard to my position on things...your assumptions are mere projection of your own inadequacies. I have no time for idiots who can't even engage in public discourse at a third-grade level, and you barely reach even that height.
Don't pretend to know me or what I stand for. "Greed" my ass. You are wholly a fool, and an unskilled fool at that. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:13 AMSo then your Profile is all a Hoax. -
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Unsu...
Hoax
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:46 AMIt is truly unfortunate that you feel that way.
However, at every new post you make, I am constantly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. The reason you aren't getting it is your own doing, not mine.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 10:53 PMIt is truly a let-down to continuously attempt to engage you and Tomas in a discussion, only to find that you are actually unwilling or incapable of discussing anything rationally at all. Really, I can only pity you, becuase I do not hate you.
Warmest regards,
Wally
I am Not a Twinkie or a Ding Dong! I refused to let you eat me!
Best Wishes
Tomás
________________________________________________________________________________________
* ALL OF MY HATE CANNOT BE FOUND *~ KORN
www.MySpace.com/HIVisaLIE
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 11:01 PMaww tomás - matthew's a twink, and probably a ding-dong as well.
;)
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 11:22 PMUnfortunately, Wally, you seem to have a problem with those who cite scientists more credible than you or I on the subject, and I cannot explain to you the basics of the retroviral life cycle without citing the work of others (though you seem to see no problem with doing so yourself -- it's only when others do it that it seems to bother you.) If you'll promise to be nice and not resort to ad hominem attacks and slander against the reputations of persons far more reputable than yourself (or for that matter, myself), including Rous, Duesberg, Gallo, Montagnier, Mullis, and other prominent retrovirologists and scientists, I'd be more than happy to explain what you claim (but have yet to prove) that you already know.
If I do so, will you answer my challenges to you? Namely:
1) $50 if you can name the scientist or scientists who proved that HIV is the CAUSE (or even probable cause or major co-factor) of AIDS, as opposed to just another opportunistic infection or an irrelevant passenger virus, and describe the experimental methods used which prove it.
2) Post a picture, or a link thereto, to an actual micrograph of purified HIV viral isolate -- NOT an illustration of what scientists THINK it might look like if they'd ever laid eyes on a whole particle of it, and not a picture that's plainly cluttered with cells, cellular debris, and other non-HIV particles, published at any time in the past 25 years, in any reputable scientific journal. (I actually know where you might get a picture that appears even to my eye to be just that, [except that I can't seem to find where it was ever actually published in a scientific journal] but I'm not telling you where to find it. Hunt high and low, little man, if you want to prove to me and everyone here that HIV has been isolated, I'm gonna make you work for it.)
3) Prove that my application of Baye's Theorem in the hypothetical mass-test of 100,000 people was in any way flawed, misleading, or mathematically incorrect. I've checked the figures nine ways to sunday, and the only flaw you're gonna find is a typo in the breakdown, which causes the column to add up to 99,998 rather than 100,000. (the first line should read "99,135 TRUE NEGATIVES", rather than 99,133). Since that only comes to an error of 0.002%, I'd say I'm still in pretty safe territory to offer you a wager of whatever sum you name, if you can find any fatal flaw in it. Name the sum and get cracking with your calculator. I warn you, though, you don't want to get greedy, because this is a bet you'll lose -- with the exception of that one typo which I've already retracted, it's flawless.
4) Show me the HIV test of ANY type, whose sensitivity and specificity has been verified by the gold standard of actual isolation and purification of what was documented to be a single retrovirus known as HIV, rather than being "verified" against the patients' sexual orientation, race, drug habits, and/or health history, or otherwise "verified" against another test which had itself only been "verified" by its agreement with a previous, "less accurate" test, or by the circumstantial evidence of the patient's sexual orientation, etc. One single HIV test that's been verified against actual HIV, in the history of HIV testing, EVER, that's all I ask, and you can name the amount of the wager at any time prior to submitting the proof. C'mon, doesn't the lure of easy money appeal to you? ...Or are you chicken? (Actually, I have no money, but I won't have to pay -- I'm trying to draw you into a sucker bet. Tell ya what, since I'm too broke to stake my end of the bet in cash, the loser has to suck a baboon's asshole until the baboon's skull caves in if he can't pay the bet.)
...Want me to explain the retroviral life cycle to you? I'm prepared to do so, but only if you accept my challenges to you as well. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:33 AMI have no such problems. Until such time as you or Tomas can meet me at the cellular level, you are persona non grata. You guys did the attacking, and I have continually tried to engage in an open discussion, only to be harangued by lunatic articles from the VirusSmiths Website and other lunatic/pseudo-scientific anti-gay agenda organizations. You think Duesberg likes gays? The Perth group? No, they want us all dead, and you are their unfortunate and unwitting mouthpiece for their death machine.
Citing a scientist only makes sense when you are engaged in a discussion where you are supporting a point with that citation. You and Tomas are merely parrots.
Go waste someone else's time, and good luck with your killing spree. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 9:37 AMSo Much for your LIVELY DISCUSSIONS Dr Wally Wilson when your WHOLE ENTIRE AGENDA Is to "EAT DENIALSTS" for Midnight Snacks... your Debate Tactics has No Merit and One Can only Wonder how INNOCENT YOU REALLY TRY TO ACT.
Professor W. Wilson HERE IS A REALLY NICE CUT AND PASTE FOR YOU :-)
AIDS Incorporated: Common Logical Fallacies
I believe it was 'ole Abe Lincoln who talked about fooling all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time.
For the past 25 years, the AIDS experts bunglers have excelled in the art of ducking, weaving, dissembling and obfuscating about AIDS. In short, they've been fooling a whole lotta folks into thinking that taking toxic cancer chemo to treat a harmless retrovirus is sound medical practice.
But never fear -- 'ole Hank is here -- with a handy, helpful guide of logical fallacies to know when these jokers are pulling your chain. Enjoy!
Ad Hominem:
If you don't believe that HIV causes AIDS, well, you suck.
Appeal To False Authority:
The NIH has a great government website, which explains why HIV Causes AIDS
Appeal To Emotion:
Look, millions of poor Africans are gonna die, if you don’t immediately start believing that HIV causes AIDS!!!
Appeal to Fear:
Did you see what we did to Duesberg? If you don't accept that HIV causes AIDS, we will strip away your funding and ostracize you. Now, get smart, will ya?
Appeal To Force:
If you don't agree that HIV causes AIDS, we will call CPS and take away your children.
Appeal To Majority:
C’mon, everybody’s wearing a red ribbon, why not you?
Appeal to Novelty:
Yeah, I know that retroviruses historically haven’t been show to kill cells, but this is a NEW retrovirus from a Chimpanzee in Cameroon via the Castro!
Appeal To Numbers:
Thousands of scientists think that HIV causes AIDS, why not you?
Appeal To Tradition:
Traditionally, viruses are very bad things, causing many different ailments, why not this virus, too?
Argumentum Ad Nauseum:
HIV causes AIDS. You’re a Denialist. HIV causes AIDS. You’re a Denialist. HIV causes AIDS. You’re a Denialist. HIV causes AIDS. You’re a Denialist. HIV causes AIDS. You’re a Denialist. HIV causes AIDS. You’re a Denialist.
Begging The Question:
AIDS is the disease that is caused by HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
Burden Of Proof:
Can you prove that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS?
Complex Question:
Have you stopped beating your wife while denying that HIV causes AIDS?
False Dilemma:
Either you accept that HIV causes AIDS or you're responsible for killing millions of Africans.
False Premise:
Since HIV is found in all cases of AIDS, obviously HIV must cause AIDS.
Gambler's Fallacy:
Look, highly credentialed scientists have usually got it right in the past, so I just know they got AIDS right this time!
Guilt By Association:
You know who else doesn’t believe that HIV causes AIDS?
*(insert pictures of Nixon, Mbeki, Kary Mullis here)*
Non Sequitur:
HIV causes AIDS, because if not, that means we've been lying to people all these years.
No True Scotsman:
Argument: "No Scientist questions whether HIV causes AIDS
Reply: " Dr. Kary Mullis questions whether HIV causes AIDS."
Rebuttal: "Ah yes, but no true scientist questions whether HIV causes AIDS.
Post Hoc/False Cause:
Since we’'ve started pumping people with AZT and other toxic drugs, AIDS deaths have decrease 62%. Therefore, HIV causes AIDS.
Red Herring:
Well, you say that to prove HIV causes AIDS, requires extraordinary evidence, because it's an extraordinary claim. Well, we’d like to note that "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence" is itself an extraordinary claim.
Slippery Slope:
If you don't accept that HIV causes AIDS, you will do poorly in class, drop out of school, commit crimes, go to prison, and die of AIDS.
barnesworld.blogs.com/barnes_...aci.html
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Unsu...
In fact...
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:45 AMIn fact, I've provided the information to #2 and #4 on this very forum. You even looked at (and ignored) the proof of #2.
As for #1 and #3, take your straw men and build something that will keep you warm. -
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Unsu...
Re: In fact... (Review)
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:58 AMSpecifically:
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...20b83748a5
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...e01a310dc0
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...3e62a8ba1b
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...61e11e4568
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...0614b14dd1
In general:
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...b77fecd252
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...1d68c33a08
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Re: In fact...
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 10:53 AM"In fact, I've provided the information to #2 and #4 on this very forum. You even looked at (and ignored) the proof of #2. "
You did no such thing. You posted links to ILLUSTRATIONS (computer graphics no less -- ooooh! Save me from the Nintendo virus!), and micrographs that clearly were not of purified viral isolate, but which were instead at least 99% impurity, with no proof that the other 1% was actually HIV.
As for that Fluor test you mentioned, if you'd bothered to read the accompanying literature you would have seen that it plainly states that it must be confirmed by ELISA and WB, which means that it is not a DIAGNOSTIC test, it is a SCREENING test. Nice try, but that's not even close to the genuine article.
--- Gos -
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Unsu...
Re: In fact...
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:00 PMGos - There are actual photomicrographs there. Use your eyes for something other than blinking for a change. You lie when it would be easier to tell the truth. -
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Re: In fact...
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 2:45 PMYes, but photomicrographs of WHAT? Obviously not purified viral isolate, since that would take the form of a bunch of particles more or less identical to each other. Any fifth grade student could pick out that there were whole cells in the frame, for Chrissake -- are you going to tell me that these whole cells are just really, really large HIV particles? Get a grip.
--- Gos
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 11:06 PMP.S. Tomas, while I'm shooting everyone else in this room like fish in a barrel, don't think I'm gonna leave you out. I can't believe you let this trio of mental pygmies intimidate you into position they've got you in. You're better than this. None of them having an IQ higher than 30, it takes all 3 of them to equal the IQ of our current President (living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.) Don't counter them with someone else's arguments against one facet of this megalomultifacted fraud, tell them what you yourself have learned from experience, from research, and from carefully weighing the facts. Better yet, stop arguing with fools, lest onlookers become confused as to who is the bigger fool -- the fool or the fool who argues with a fool.
GOS
I Know I Know it's just I get tired of the "AID$ DENIALIST~HIV DENIER Name calling MISINFORMATIONAL GAG FEST I GET MYSELF INTO ratio 90 Cult members against one dissident..
IM Ok GOS My Job is To Question and I read all of the Propaganda here while others bypass Wally and Phillip as bouncers in a Night Club..
If I have Reached Just One Person GOS then I have done my Job.
thanks always
Tomás -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 11:32 PMI hear ya T. I gotta hit the sack, y'all -- "not that it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, cause it hasn't" -0- Bugs Bunny
Wally,
I'll be looking forward to those 4 proofs I asked for. Think you can have 'em by morning, or will you need more time?
--- Gos -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:36 AM" I'll be looking forward to those 4 proofs I asked for. Think you can have 'em by morning, or will you need more time? "
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Sorry, but you will have to find your own answers (since answers, not knowledge, are all you have). Have fun with your homophobic anti-gay Perth Group-sponsored killing spree.
In my posts on this forum are all of your answers, only you are too thick to even suffer the slighted bit of reading comprehension.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:29 AM"Sorry, but you will have to find your own answers (since answers, not knowledge, are all you have). Have fun with your homophobic anti-gay Perth Group-sponsored killing spree.
In my posts on this forum are all of your answers, only you are too thick to even suffer the slighted bit of reading comprehension. "
I'll go you one better. I don't have answers, all I have is questions. And despite your obfuscation, bluster, and ad hominem attacks against scientists whom you clearly aren't qualified to critique on scientific grounds, you still haven't provided any answers to four very basic questions: 1) Where's the proof that HIV causes AIDS, and not the other way around? 2) If HIV has been purified and isolated, where are the pictures of viral isolate? 3) According to Baye's Theorem, an HIV test with 99.5% sensitivity and specificity will return more false positives than true positives. Can you prove otherwise? 4) Where is the HIV test of any type whose sensitivity and specificity has been verified by the gold standard of viral isolation from those who test positive, and not from those who test negative?
You've obfuscated, you've thrown out red herrings that I've already exposed as such, but you are clearly utterly unable to provide those four proofs that I asked for, and I submit to you that this is because these proofs do not exist. Until such time as you can produce proof otherwise, you are my bitch, right here in front of God and everyone in this forum. If I'm a sock puppet, then you've just been OWNED by a fucking Muppet. How does it feel?
You claim to eat eminent scientists like Duesberg for a midnight snack, but you haven't even proven yourself worthy to suck my dick, and I'm just some guy with a GED. If this is how well you do arguing with a high school dropout, I'd hate to see how badly Duesberg or Mullis would kick a bone out of your ass and pick their teeth with it.
You obviously aren't bright enough to realize it, but that's game, set, and match. Would you mind handing me a towel, sweetie, so I can wipe your poopie and blood off my unsheathed member?
--- Gos
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:44 PMthat was a fairly disturbing comment given the context of this conversation.
"Would you mind handing me a towel, sweetie, so I can wipe your poopie and blood off my unsheathed member? " -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:55 PMWell Tomas!
It's always nice to see a paitient who looks into the properties and side effects of the medication they are taking.
Nice piece on Prozac! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:46 AMJAKE
1)I AM NOT A PATIENT.
2)I HAVE NEVER TOUCHED ANY OTHE PHARMECEUTICAL OTHER THAN CHEMO THERAPY DRUGS FOR SO_CALLED HIV ,COMMON ANTIBIOTICS, AND A PAIN KILLERS PRESCRIBED BY A DENTIST.
3) SOMETHING TELLS ME IT"S PROBABLY WAY TOO LATE FOR YOU.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 2:33 PMYes, and Wally had every inch of it coming to him. He hides behind bluster and vague, unsupported accusations of quackery, because he has no facts and no proof, despite the fact that he claims to be a scientist.
He is free to join us on a higher level of debate at any time, Matthew, and yet he chooses instead to engage in personal ad hominem attacks, instead of offering the proofs I have asked for. I invite you to examine what he claims as "proof" for #2 and #4, and judge for yourself whether they fit the descriptions implied in my original questions. As for #1 and #3, he has yet to have even CLAIMED to have answered those, so at best he can come up with answers to half of the legitimate questions I've raised, and yet he persists in name-calling and other bullshit to hide the fact that, in fact, he cannot come up with an answer to even ONE of my questions that stands up to any real scrutiny.
But again, don't take my word for it. Examine the "proofs" that Wally claims to have offered in this forum for yourself, and decide for yourself. Judge him on his own merits, and then decide whether my derision of him is justified. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 4:27 PMfranky gos, i don't particularly want to join you in anything. i am not knowledgable enough to join wally in debating you on the science of aids but as a student of human beings it seems obvious to me that the arguments you are putting forward are not part of rational, skeptical scientific discussion (though i imagine some of the scientists that you mention may be) but rather the promotion of a very specific agenda. you seem to be claiming to be commited to skepticism and the progress of science but what i see actually coming through is a deep commitment to an idea (that hiv does not cause aids) and a determined grasping of any point that supports that idea. this is antithetical to the progress of science and the search for truth. science operates by constructing and refining more and more accurate models of the universe based on the best evidence available. what you are trying to do is destroy that construction because it does not agree with a pre-existing conviction on your part and replace it with essentially nothing. i have not read duesburg but from what i understand while his alternative theory may have some logical merit it certainly does not stand up to the standards of proof that you demand of the orthdox understanding of the relationship between hiv and aids. nor does it have nearly the level of indirect evidence that has made the absolutely overwhelming majority of scientists affirm the standard understanding of hiv/aids. single minded demands for proof on narrow points while ignoring vast amounts of other kinds of evidence (that i am not qualified to discuss with you so please do not try) cannot help but be indicitive of an agenda that you have admitted you have every reason to cling to. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:05 AMMatthew that is a Graceful Post..Nice,Well Written and yet full of Arrogance.. We can all see the mindset that you maintain because if you go back and re-read your responses to me I believe you labeled me a "Denier" rather than a Skeptic and Made a Proposed Question about "Dissidents" being afraid of being HIV+.. Your Honesty is good because like Gos and I we don't claim to be Scientists or Doctors but we have abandoned the Mainstream Scientific Approach of the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis... Also you mentioned if you could you'd debate With Wally Already and you have Denied yourself the Opportunity with the Other Side of AIDS Information as a Skeptic but rather an Apologist. What Most of you Fail to realize is that Wally is a Hipocritical Scientist who is "allowed to Attack first and be Nice later" this is why We are angry and cannot trust Him.. I Personally would have DISCUSSED with him calmly if he hadn't Trashed Other Scientists whether he likes them or not. As For you Matthew there may be an element of desire to want to know BOTH sides now because there are thousands of Gay men that do Not Know there is another side AIDS.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 5:01 PMIt is truly unfortunate that you feel that way. Worse, it should be a crime that you see your part in the Perth Group's homophobic anti-HIV gay genocide as some sort of game.
I really and truly pity you, and until such time as you can act like a human being, you're just another machine in the system. "Clearly."
"Game, set and match?" No. Just another rant by someone who won't engage in honest dialogue.
Have a nice time on your killing spree, and don't expect me to hang around for your endless well of venom.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:40 PMWally the Perth Group aren't Anti-gay ..are you waiting for third party verfication from them ? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:11 PMNow Tomas
Didnt your Mommy tell you that it's RUDE to SHOUT? (all those Upper-case letters?..and silly $ signs for a letter "S")
Ohh...Hows it coming with that Playstation-3..or ..did you miss out on yours last weekend?
In case your desperate for YOUR PS-3. Ebay is now selling them brand new for only 600:00 and UP!
Better RUN little Boi! ....go get your Playstation-3! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:11 AMa mind is a terrible thing to waste
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:17 PMActually, I've had two interactions with them, and in both instances they made their feelings toward gay people very clear to me. They have a hidden agenda in their anti-HIV rhetoric, and that is that they believe that HIV is a gift from God.
What amazes me is that you or Gos would ever fall for their deceptions. You ought to check out the friends that Papadopolus keeps, and she's just a good starting point with The Perth Group. Follow the money... -
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HIV..Non Existent or Harmless ...either way..
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:52 AMBeing Antibody Positive to Viruses has always been a good thing..thats why they have Flu Season every year to trigger the wonderful gift from God "Antibody Responses">>>>>>>>>>> Immunity.
Wally im Gay and I don't AGREE with some of the Lifestyle choices that our Gay brothers have made and I believe in Gay Marriage and Solid Relationships however on a whole new thread I do not believe in the myth of Monogamy or that it is human nature but rather a "choice or an Agreement" for Everyone gay or straight...
The Perth Group has Argued in their writings and seen in their videos how gay men are treated like a walking virus it's like Gay Men "Become HIV" rather than just Poz..
The Perth Group have shot down many times the catholic mass "$TATUS" of so-called HIV Positive gay men..if Papodopolus is Anti-gay she is doing the opposite of Phelps inc.. She is tearing down the structure of the Church of HIV for gay men to lead Healthy Drug Free Lives..
Follow the Money? The Perth Group gets no Money from the Pharmeceutical Industry and there are no "Turn About" AIDS Benefit funding for the Perth group in the USA as far as I know. Gay Clubs across the USA raise more funding for HIV/AIDS than any other...talk about Anti-Gay..it's a crying shame. by the way Could you please tell Jake I WILL NO LONGER RESPOND TO HIM. HIS Posts to me are A WASTE OF HIS TIME. also I had a Dream about being called a DENIALIST and it's not such a bad word after all..
The AID$ Industry called us "Dissidents" in the beginning and so we accepted it and now we are called "Denialists" and when I thought about this I do Deny Mainstream HIV theories so by definition I am a Denialist... So from this day forward calling me a Denialist,Dissident,Denier or whatever all relates to "RE-THINKING HIV and AIDS" Id Prefer Rethinker since the Challenge is to the HIV protagonists.
PS. People who Deny the so-called Ant-Retroviral (Side Effects) to me have a Nazi Like State of Mind" it's X treme Denial.
Tomás -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV..Non Existent or Harmless ...either way..
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:27 PM"Follow the money" doesn't mean just pharmaceutical money... Try some far, right-wing, anti-gay Xtian fundamentalists... Oh, nevermind...you've bought into their line...have fun with it.
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:37 AMWhat is even more funny is watching you talk to yourself under another Tribe sock-puppet. Yeah, I'm _so_ fooled by your toys... -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:02 AMWally and Mad Jack Kash,
It Does not Surprise me that you both Insist on Rants and Whining and Oppinions of Other Scientists that YOU claim are Quacks..Mad Proposed a Question/Response and I simply Responded and Wally an Idiotic So-called Self Righteous~ Hypocrite ~Moore inc..Scientist who acts as if he Knows it all!
None of you can tell me WHAT,WHEN,WHERE AND HOW thats how I BECAME OF VICTIM OF THE GREEDY HIV INDUSTRY In the First Place by Following their Pathetic Chemotherapy and Evil Doctrines...((((MIND CONTROL))))YOU ARE RIGHT WALLY No One should have to Debate a so-called Scientist in an Alternative Gay Forum that should be left up to the Scientists... IF I EVER CAUGHT MY DOCTOR ONLINE IN A FORUM HE/SHE would be FIRED IMMEDIATELY...Thats even More reason to Question your TOTAL AGENDA HERE.
MAD KASH I will be adding you & Jake to the Historical record.... and the Eminent Scientist Dr Wally. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 8:02 AMYou can call me Mr. Wilson.
My response to you has not changed. Please feel free to review it here:
altgays.tribe.net/thread/e4...d67ab78b5e
Beyond that, I will not waste my breath trying to actually engage you in a CONVERSATION. You clearly are incapable of such things, as is your guard dog, Gos...the newest Tribe member, I might add... -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 8:19 AMNo not the newest tribe member..GOS is our newest "Sock Puppet" Wally. No avatar and 0 "freinds"= "Sock Puppet".
Ohhh Poor Poor liddle Tomas! your such a put-upon little Twink!
Your Mommy definatly dropped YOU on your head,your lack of basic Intelligence shows a definitive "Childhood Accident". -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 8:33 AMthis thread is sad... -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:47 AMRe: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
this thread is sad...
yeah T'is.
as a Mad Kash said:
"NUFF SAID"
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 12:02 PMAgreed. I am finished trying to communicate with rabid skunks.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 2:26 PM"this thread is sad..."
You're right, Matthew, it is sad. Before I entered the conversation, you and Terry were the only people in the entire room who had anything intelligent to contribute to the debate, including the rantings of my good friend Tomas, who was allowing a bunch of knuckle-dragging feces throwers who measure their scientific qualifications in AOL inches to drag him through the mud and letting them get to him and make him rant, rather than presenting the intelligent arguments I know he's capable of.
You, on the other hand, have raised intelligent challenges to the dissident arguments, and as such, I'm going to respond to you intelligently.
Matthew wrote: "but what is behind questioning the best explanation available for aids? not that all science should not constantly be under question, that's how science functions. but most hiv/aids denial seems to differ from constructive questioning in that it carries along with it insistence on ambiguity. it is the attachment to this ambiguity that seems to motivate most aids denial."
You're absolutely right, Matthew -- most dissident arguments hinge on ambiguity -- this or that isn't proven, but none of us can offer proof that his particular pet hypothesis is, in fact, 100% correct. We can't even agree amongst ourselves on something as simple as whether HIV even exists, much less any role it may or may not have in AIDS.
However, as I pointed out earlier, Galileo himself never claimed to be 100% correct, nor was he. It was the Church that claimed infallibility, on a hypothesis for which there was no scientific support, and much observable evidence to the contrary. Now, just because the Church was wrong about astronomy, that doesn't necessarily mean that the AIDS orthodoxy are wrong about AIDS, but it does mean that they DO have to prove, unambiguously, their claim that HIV is the cause of AIDS, and after 25 years and billions of dollars spent, they still have yet to do that.
I could waste hours and hours of both of our time explaining all the different reasons why this is so, but I'd prefer to be brief, and I'm sure you'd appreciate it. Therefore I simply want to offer you a challenge for yourself: The next few times that some article in some reputable scientific journal is published, (as has happened in JAMA and Lancet in just the past few weeks) whose results startle the entire community of AIDS scientists, because it's exactly the opposite of what they're expecting to find, ask yourself one question: "Would I be surprised by this if I didn't believe that HIV was the cause of AIDS, or if I believed that HIV were nonexistent, or would it be pretty much exactly what I'd expect?"
Having asked myself that very question more times than I can count in the past 5 years, I can tell you that if the next 5 years of discovery about AIDS is the same as what I've observed in the headlines over and over again, you'll find yourself saying, over and over, "Hell, this is EXACTLY what I'd expect if I didn't believe that HIV was the cause of AIDS!" Try it, you just might surprise yourself. As a former believer in HIV, I can certainly attest that the anwer to that very question surprised the hell out of me when I first realized the answer.
You wrote: "what are the implications in terms of personal responsibility and actual behavior of having it be completely up in the air what causes and spreads aids? what does that say about the motivations of aids deniers?"
Your question reminds me of a very intelligent question asked by a caller to a radio show I occasionally host, who asked, "What are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that people shouldn't use condoms, that they shouldn't get tested, or that they shouldn't take antiretrovirals?"
I'll answer you like I answered him: I'm not telling you you should or shouldn't use condoms, get tested, or take ARVs. What I AM saying is that those are decisions that YOU should make for YOURSELF, after having examined all of the evidence you can find, all of the arguments you can find, and come to some decision as to what YOU believe.
Don't take anyone else's word for the decisions YOU should make for YOUR OWN health and YOUR OWN life, and for God's sake, don't take my word for anything. But while you're not taking my word for anything, don't take the word of some guys in an internet forum who claim to be scientists, but who have yet to prove that they have one whit of actual scientific knowledge, and don't take the word of Gallo, Duesberg, Montagnier, Mullis, Ho, Papadapolus, Fauci, Rasnick, Baltimore, or others who ARE reputable scientists -- just because they're reputable doesn't mean they can't be wrong. (Hell, Dr. Mullis thinks he met aliens from outer space, and I say that as a fellow dissident and an admirer of Mullis, who has already cited Mullis repeatedly. Notwithstanding this, I still say that if you examine it, Dr. Gallo's claim to have shaken hands with "the virus that causes AIDS" is twice as ridiculous as Mullis' claim to have shaken hands with E.T.) Get the facts for yourself, and decide for yourself.
Personal responsibility is the only form of social responsibility there is. Your personal responsibility is to educate yourself and make up your own mind, and take whatever action you deem appropriate, rather than relying on anyone else to tell you what you should do, particularly when it comes to protecting yourself against diseases like AIDS.
"i'm hesitant to bring it up as it seems cheap but is it not possible that aids denial is largely a way of dealing with the emotional pain of finding out that one is hiv+? or even the fear of becoming hiv+, especially if one has a lifestyle that makes one highly at risk?"
Don't be hesitant to bring it up -- it's a valid concern. And speaking for HIV-positives like myself, Tomas, Christine Maggiore, Kim Bannon, and others, I have to concede to you on that point -- we DO have every reason not to want to believe that HIV is the cause of AIDS.
However, this does not explain the positions of people like Mullis, Duesberg, Culshaw, and others, who would actually be better off if they played along and said that HIV really was the cause of AIDS. Duesberg, as a prominent retrovirologist, could make a killing as an HIV researcher, as could Dr. Culshaw, who has spent 10 years of her life as a mainstream HIV researcher, working in the field of biomathematics. Mullis, who invented the PCR technique which is supposedly used to count viral particles in an AIDS patient's blood, stands to lose big time, should he manage to convince people that he is right about HIV, because it would mean that his main claim to fame (for which he won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1993, no less) is absolutely useless in the diagnosis and treatment of AIDS.
Why would any of these people be in denial? What do they stand to gain by it, as opposed to what they would gain if they'd never spoken up about their legitimate doubts about HIV and AIDS? Think about that -- you can accuse me of being in denial all you want and I cannot defend myself, but by that very same standard, some of the most prominent "denialists" in the fray are utterly unimpeachable, and in fact appear to be acting contrary to their own economic and political interests. Either they're right and they're among the bravest souls on the planet for raising their voices to speak Truth to Power, or they're wrong and they're the stupidest people on the planet.
But again, as an intelligent human being, it is your responsibility to yourself and to those you love (or even just have sex with), to educate yourself and decide for yourself. If I am irresponsible for saying so, then I guess I'm irresponsible.
--- Gos
P.S. I'm not in denial, I'm in West Denial. Look at the map of the progression of WNV in the US found at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prog...ted_States -- the data for these maps were generated by the CDC, and similar maps can be found at their website. Notice how WNV barrelled right through Colorado and Arizona on its way to California. Now tell me why a mosquito- and bird-borne virus would make a beeline for the Desert Southwest like that, rather than traveling to California via a northern route, following the densest concentrations of mosquitoes and birds. In fact, in 2004, the very first cases of the year were found in Arizona and New Mexico, before the beginning of the mosquito season -- think about that, it doesn't make sense.
Now think about this for a second, because it makes a whole lot more sense. The CDC is a bureaucracy, whose bureaucrats, (like all bureaucrats everywhere) must justify their funding -- in the case of the CDC, this is by "finding" and "preventing" as many "infectious pandemics" as they can, and by making these appear to be as scary as possible, to get maximum funding. What if it just happens to be a slow decade, quarter century, or half century? How do you justify your funding, so that you'll have plenty of resources if/when an actual pandemic arises? Simple -- you have to make up pandemics and then pretend to prevent them from becoming major disasters (which is a whole lot easier than battling an actual pandemic anyway, since it's really nothing more than a straw man.) This has been going on ever since Legionnaire's Disease, which was the first such made-up pandemic since modern science closed the book on actual infectious diseases in the middle of the 20th Century. -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 3:06 PMseperating the attacks from the information, I think this debate/discussion is well worth having and has been informative but Gos, you're comments are an indication of a strain of homosexual equal in their nefarious nature as those who preach the death of all gays. The visceral flaming on such an emotional subject I can understand and tolerate, however, your comments simply represent another battle that's been waged for thousands of years hiv/aids and all it's implications being simply another squirmish. At least you expose yourselves for what you are, keep up the good work.
"You're right, Matthew, it is sad. Before I entered the conversation, you and Terry were the only people in the entire room who had anything intelligent to contribute to the debate, including the rantings of my good friend Tomas, who was allowing a bunch of knuckle-dragging feces throwers who measure their scientific qualifications in AOL inches to drag him through the mud and letting them get to him and make him rant, rather than presenting the intelligent arguments I know he's capable of.
You, on the other hand, have raised intelligent challenges to the dissident arguments, and as such, I'm going to respond to you intelligently." -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:35 AM"Before I entered the conversation, you and Terry were the only people in the entire room who had anything intelligent to contribute to the debate, including the rantings of my good friend Tomas, who was allowing a bunch of knuckle-dragging feces throwers who measure their scientific qualifications in AOL inches to drag him through the mud and letting them get to him and make him rant, rather than presenting the intelligent arguments I know he's capable of. "
You Are Correct Gos I won't deny that. Again there was one Point where I was confused about Phillip and Wally being the same person and with the way this forum attaches it's responses it got a little more confusing.. I Have had Other debates in other forums that were Calm and with Virologists mind you..(and We Were Banned and Censored) there was a Point where I lost Control and the Name calling began here.
When Jake Brought up My mother that Pissed me off and I wanted to retaliate toward anyone calling me a denialist and thats what I did.
I Seriously Do Not Mean to Offend Anybody~
God Bless Everyone of You
"Never Stop Questioning"
Tomás -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 6:08 AMNo Tomas
The Reason it isn't "too late for me" is becuase the Antiretrovirals guys like yourself are pushing as false information on drugs that do MORE harm than good have once again saved another life..MINE!
The reason you were sensored is becuase of the inflammatory nature of your replies to post's.
A debate forum such as this one(TRIBE) isn't here for a one-Man Crusade.
Its for open dialogue on a subject.If your tone of posting is inflammatory like yours is(with the exception of this last reply) then you get sensored by the TOU Guys. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 3:25 PMNo Tomas
The Reason it isn't "too late for me" is becuase the Antiretrovirals guys like yourself are pushing as false information on drugs that do MORE harm than good have once again saved another life..MINE!
JAKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE YOU ARE A DENIALI$TIC WHINING NAZI.
The reason you were sensored is becuase of the inflammatory nature of your replies to post's.
AANNNNNNNNHH! WROOOOOOOONG AGAIN! THE DEBATE DIDN'T TAKE PLACE HERE IT WAS AT A PLACE WHERE DIALOUGE IS SIMPLY NOT WELCOME BECAUSE THEY PROMOTE AID$ CULTIC AWARENESS...EVEN THE VIROLOGIST EMAILED ME AND WONDERED WHY..HE WAS A KOOL PERSON UNLIKE YOU PEOPLE.
A debate forum such as this one(TRIBE) isn't here for a one-Man Crusade.
YOU CAN CALL ME DAVID AND THIS TRIBE GOLIATH...ANYONE HAVE A SLING SHOT?
Its for open dialogue on a subject.If your tone of posting is inflammatory like yours is(with the exception of this last reply) then you get sensored by the TOU Guys.
LOL IM SURE THEY CAN CAPTION EVERY ONE OF YOUR PATHETIC ONE LINERS AND SLANDEROUS REMARKS AND YOU ARE STILL HERE UNFORTUNATLEY. PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE NAZI!
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My doctor says the HIV tests are highly specific and the Perth Group is wrong.
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:10 PM
My doctor says the HIV tests are highly specific and the Perth Group is wrong. How can a group of physicists know more medicine than my doctor?
The Perth Group has never claimed to be infallible. We have freely admitted we may be wrong. For instance see our opening remarks at the July 2000 Presidential AIDS Advisory Panel meeting www.theperthgroup.com/PAPANEL...ria2.doc The Perth Group does not claim to know "more medicine" than any doctor. That would be foolish. What the Perth Group address is merely one very small part of medicine, that is, the HIV theory of AIDS. This is a subject we have been researching since the very beginning of the AIDS era in 1981 and one with which we regard ourselves reasonably familiar. And we are not all physicists.
See www.theperthgroup.com/aboutpg.html Even if we were all physicists, or electricians or plumbers or whatever occupation anyone wishes to nominate, that will not resolve the argument. Science does not progress through consensus amongst one or another group. In a scientific debate what is important is what is said. Not who says it or where it is said [1]. Even outsiders working in humble surroundings can come up with ideas and theories better than a current paradigm. Albert Einstein was unable to obtain a post at a University and needed the help of a classmate's father to obtain a position as a "technical expert third class" in the Patent Office in Bern. This is where he wrote his four seminal papers the first of which was to win him the 1921 Nobel Prize in Physics.
We do not doubt for a moment your doctor believes the HIV tests are highly specific. Meaning that HIV and virtually nothing else is capable of causing a positive test. There are two reasons for your doctor's belief [2]. Firstly, he may accept it based on the word of others. That is, trust in the opinions of colleagues or scientists whose views he accepts because they are the recognised authorities in this area. No one could ever quibble with this approach because no professional has the time to practise his craft and check up on everything. However, unless one assumes authorities are always correct, such pragmatism cannot resolve a scientific issue. All that is guaranteed is that the view of the established experts will prevail. The second reason is your doctor has studied the scientific literature himself and has come to the same conclusions as the established experts. As a patient it is very reasonable to ask your doctor a number of questions in the expectation of obtaining satisfactory answers. Here are some suggested questions and your doctor is most welcome to join in the debate. You may also wish to study www.theperthgroup.com/FAQ/que...n8.html.
1. When Montagnier and Gallo claimed to have proven the existence of "HIV" in 1983/84 based on its "isolation", how did their experiments support their conclusions? (This is important for many reasons including the fact that virus constituents are used in the antibody and PCR tests).
2. These researchers also claimed to have obtained "purified virus". What evidence did they present to back up this claim?
3. Is it possible to obtain the "HIV" proteins and RNA without purification? (Remembering that viruses and cells are made up of the same biochemical constituents as cells and viruses grow only in cells).
4. Assuming there are such entities as "HIV" proteins and that they have been separated from all the cellular material and proteins in which "HIV" is cultured, does having one or several antibodies which react with these proteins prove they are "HIV antibodies"?
5. If your doctor concedes cross-reacting antibodies can be a problem with antibody tests, by what means have the established experts proven the tests are highly specific for HIV infection? Where are their data published?
6. If you live in a part of the world [3] where the diagnosis of HIV infection is performed following two reactive ELISA antibody tests followed by a "confirmatory" Western blot, how can the tests be considered highly specific when the criteria for a positive Western blot vary between countries, institutions and even laboratories in the same city? See Western blot chart www.theperthgroup.com/OTHER/wbchart.doc
7. In regard to the "confirmatory" Western blot and assuming each country, insitution or laboratory is correct, how can a person be infected with HIV in New York City on Sunday and not infected the following Monday in Paris? Or in Sydney Australia on Tuesday? Would he be infected midway across the Atlantic? Midway across the Pacific?
8. Would your doctor accept that ECG criteria diagnostic of a recent heart attack vary between hospitals and countries?
www.theperthgroup.com/FAQ/question6.html
Further Reading:
AIDS and the Actuary
www.theperthgroup.com/FAQ/question8.html
THEPERTHGROUP.com
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Unsu...
The abuse of statistics
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 12:13 PM" According to the US Census Bureau, there are approximately 300 million Americans. According to the CDC, approximately 1.1 million of them are estimated to be infected with HIV. Divide A into B and you get a seroprevalence of 0.367%. This is the estimated actual incidence of HIV in the general American population. " ~gos
* It is not _the_ estimated incidence of HIV in the general population, it is your flawed method of trying to force a data set out of nothing.
" Now, if we did mass HIV testing of a group of 100,000 randomly-selected Americans, using a test whose sensitivity and specificity were 99.5%, this would mean that statistically, we could expect 367 of them to be HIV positive before we tested them, and the other 99,633 would be HIV negative. " ~gos
* "If?" Using your attempt at a forced statistic? In more than three instances you have forced an imaginary data set out of nothing. NOTHING. Ok, we'll take a sample of the population (and, mind you, a sample whose real numbers extend beyond the boundaries of what we can actually know at this point) and divide it back into the population... Then we'll use a "what if" to come up with another pretend data set, then another, and then we'll misapply Baye's Theorem, and then we'll have a totally meaningless number that we've manipulated in much the same way that the pharmocopious companies manipulate their data, and we'll foist it upon the public as if it were real...and while we're doing that, we'll claim the moral high-ground, when in fact we are no better than those whom we malign (the pharmacopious companies).
Gos, get a real data set, and stop making up numbers from the statistics of others. You can't mix-and-match-and-swirl population and sample in such a whimsical fashion. Your statement about your GED shines more brightly than ever in this instance of your disingenuous misuse of statistics.
Besides, Baye's theorem has to do with conditional probability...what part of "mutually exclusive events" do you not understand?
The problem here is that you won't just discuss one thing, because when you do you have no dung heap upon which to stand. Your game is to heap up as much shit as is possible, thus inundating everyone with so much bullshit that no one even wants to wade through even a little bit of it...then you "win" every time.
So, for you it is a game, and you play that game well. But HIV and AIDS actually kill people, and your game is sick-headed and wrong.
Let's get back to the basics of RNA retroviruses... Are you even capable of doing that? I mean, the entire folly of this "virus myth" is built upon the glossing-over of the real properties of RNA retroviruses... -
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Re: The abuse of statistics
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:45 AM"we'll misapply Baye's Theorem, and then we'll have a totally meaningless number that we've manipulated in much the same way that the pharmocopious companies manipulate their data, and we'll foist it upon the public as if it were real"
HOW did I misapply Baye's Theorem? If you can't explain that, Wally, then your ranting amounts to nothing more than blowing smoke up your own ass (since no one else here is gonna be dumb enough to let you blow smoke up ours.)
Go to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27s_theorem, and familiarize yourself with this statistical rule of conditional probability.
Better yet, since you probably can't understand all the math on the page, scroll down and look at example #2 on that page, which deals with workplace drug testing (and since you've obviously smoked A LOT of paraquat, you won't have nearly the emotional reaction to their example that you did to mine.) Explain to me how my example is different from the one you see at Wikipedia.
"The problem here is that you won't just discuss one thing, because when you do you have no dung heap upon which to stand. Your game is to heap up as much shit as is possible, thus inundating everyone with so much bullshit that no one even wants to wade through even a little bit of it...then you "win" every time. "
OK, apparently four proofs is three too many for your feeble little mind. I'll let you off the hook and break it down to ONE question:
How many mainstream (ie non-dissident) AIDS researchers have ever won the Nobel Prize? Can you name even one?
I can name at least three dissidents who've won the Nobel, including one who won it for inventing the very technique which is used to count viral particles in an HIV patient's blood.
If your side has saved so many lives, where's their Nobel Prize?
--- Gos -
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Unsu...
Re: The abuse of statistics
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:35 PMWikipedia? Sorry, but a simple statistics text suffices.
My post stands. You've created a data set out of nothing, and then misapplied a statistical theorem for conditional probability. Simple.
Leave your personal attacks out of it and stick to the facts...your "statistics" are flat-out wrong. Go with the original data sets, or give it up.
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:32 PMIncoherent Language?
What Part of "HIV is a Bold Faced Lie" Do you Not understand? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 12:10 PM"I've been waiting a long time for Mr. Scheff to send me third-party-verified documentation, and he didn't refuse to do so -- he simply didn't do so, and I never heard from him again. I'll wait, and as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out as to whether this actually occurred or not..."
Wally, I've just spoken with Liam,and I've just received an email from his also, and he said that he's never heard of you or anyother "wally's" requesting 'third-party-verified documentation." What name did you use when you contacted him? -that way, I'll see if he's received anything from you.
The BBC covered this also but much to Liam's credit, he wasn't given credit or acknowledgment for being the first to bring this to the publics attention. Though...the people abroad did receive an eye-full, of the experiment, done on the children at ICC, and they received a wider perspective on the lenghts our pharma companies and our system will go through to truncate the development of children, and families.
I'd just received this link from Liam, of which you may view:
liam.gnn.tv/blogs/13170/...S_Experiments
Terry -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 12:35 PMTerry, I wrote to Liam on 01Mar04 at 07:34:10 Pacific Time. Michael P. Wright and Russell Purcel were trumping up Liam's "proof," and I asked Mr. Scheff if he would provide me with third-party verification. He essentially told me to read his article for proof.
I used my own name: Wally Wilson
I'm still awaiting third-party verification...
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 1:34 PMI'm awaiting a return phone call from Dr. Fishbein regarding his alleged part in Liam Scheff's story.
Meanwhile, this is an interesting read...
www.nypress.com/18/25/news...bergman.cfm -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:18 PM -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 4:36 PMMy purpose in constructing this website is to share my experience as a federally funded AIDS/HIV researcher with my fellow citizens, the taxpayers who supported me. My general conclusion is that officially-promoted beliefs about AIDS, at best, are the result of very flawed science.
I ask my fellow citizens to join me in requesting that appropriate committees of the U.S. Congress undertake a critical review of the U.S. AIDS program, and that they invite testimony from scientists, writers, and scholars who dissent from the officially-endorsed view.
members.aol.com/mpwright9/aids1.html -
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 7:08 PMI can tell you all about the modern American terrorist known as Michael P. Wright of Norman, Oklahoma. He has a liberal arts degree from the local degree-mill (his words), has actually planned and carried out an attack on an American military base (and was subsequently convicted), and is banned from addressing the city council in his home town. He's also been off his meds for a very long time.
Whilst you're at his Website, you can also purchase recordings of his singing and mandolin playing (if you can stand it), you can join his anti-boom-car campaign, or you can always leave him a donation via PayPal(TM).
Wright, Michael P., or WMP, or, simply WiMPy...
I know him well... Too well.
You a friend of his? -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 8:24 PMhe's not here tonight..Hmmm? Probably spending HOURS on his old Playstation-2 lamenting about missing his chance for a PS-3!
Bois..will be BOIS!
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 4:06 AM"I can tell you all about the modern American terrorist known as ..."
I finally get it! You're George W. Bush posing as a gay man on Tribe! I wondered where I had heard that sort of rhetoric before!
--- Gos
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 5:13 AM*There is No Such thing as *Medz* for HIV/AIDS*
Medications have a "Medicinal Purpose"
Medications Should Not Destroy:
DNA Synthesis
Protease
All Human Cells
Human Tissue
Bodily Organs
Immune System Responses
Mitochondria
livingwithouthivdrugs.com/lancet.pdf
Leading Cause of the Death in HIV/AIDS Patients
www.whatisaids.com/wwwboard.../109.html -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:37 PMYour "Medicinal Purpose" filter puts simple aspirin right out... Odd...
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Unsu...
The General Rule
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 7:01 PMThe General Rule states that the first person/people to bring up Nazis/Hitler loses the moral high ground.
You have a penchant for living on the sticky side of the tape it seems.
So, if you get to call people "Nazi's," then I get to call you "murderer." Right? Fair? Just?
Grow up. -
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Re: The General Rule
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:36 AMName your weapons! Concentration HIV clinics Chemo~therapy and gas ovens~ Versus Copy and Paste..
the ol devil trick .. Reversed Psychology of HIVism. -
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Unsu...
Re: The General Rule
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:39 PMEasy enough then...
For every person you refer to as a "Nazi" in any form, everyone else gets to call you a murderer. Turnabout is fair play, right? That's what you just said... -
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Re: The General Rule
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 7:04 PMWally are you stupid?
My weapon was "Copy and Paste" ive been using it as a crucifix..and it's obvious you are an Atheist ...How can Copy and Paste Hurt anyone? how is Copy and Paste a Murder weapon?
of thats right "Denialism Kills" i remember
www.MySpace.com/HIVisaLie
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Unsu...
Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 7:02 PMSince you didn't have anything to say, I take it that you are in full agreement.
::WHEW!:: Finally you've come to your senses.
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Unsu...
That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 7:25 PMThe subject was Liam Scheff's "story," and my link was a follow-up to that.
What does your post have to do with the Scheff "story?"
Nothing.
I've read your little article, and you can relax now...
But, explain the Scheff-connection...and the "NAZI" thing... -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 9:08 PMYes Wally; I’m aware of that article and had read it some time. So…how would one get the general publics approval, to administer said hiv-meds, to children? –Easy. Get the general public approval that these drugs are life saving and can will ‘improve’ the quality of the life of these children. Now here is the conundrum: how can one administer meds said to improve the quality of life for the children, where as the children, have never experience any quality in their lives since being on the meds? Keep in mind that these children where ‘taken’ from their mothers and families because the parent saw that these drugs where doing more harm then good. Now….some say that taking the children away and placing them under conditions to ensure the drugs are administered would warrant the ‘State’ having every right to do so. Well…in many cases, if an adult is ‘said’ to be positive, and show no signs of illness (albeit the signs given to the general public as warning signals), then that person isn’t force to take the drugs. In the case of the children, if that child shows no signs of illness or dis-ease; shouldn’t it be to the better of that child not to be given any drugs until possibly and illness arise, and then, and only then, that child is first diagnose for a particular illness (as all children do come down with something) and not assume that it’s rapidly progressing aids?
Now a picture can say a thousand words and not once, not once, have I witness or observed anyone (taking ‘said’ hiv-meds), to be in the perfect and/or best of health. If anything, they experience and create the very disease said to be the contributing factor in rapidly progression aids. If a gay man has any of the known disease that’s been around for some time, would it be better to cure him of that, instead of just assuming he’s pos, nor forced into being tested, which most clinics and aids organizations already what the results will say? Like I said before, there’s some wanton duplicitous medical practices going on here.
Not one picture can be produce of a person in a great healthy radiant full of the vitality of life, can be produce because, no such reality will become anyone’s truth if they remain so imprisoned on hiv-cocktails. This is based on observation. Again, I can tell if a person is on the meds because they look wasted and depleting. But try and tell them that it’s the meds, and that they do have a chance of living a full and healthy life without them; most people would be highly suspect of this. Now, for a few months, because the meds do have some antibacterial properties (which is being discovered) for only a couple of months it would be to the person believed to be hiv-pos to healing such abnormalities that is said to be aids. But the double helix is convincing someone that they are indeed infected with hiv, based on a test, that screens ‘said’ hiv-antibodies. My question is, if that persons isn’t suffering from any known illness, then why put then on drugs, that will eventually destroyed their friendly hiv-antibodies, that’s there to let the person know that they have had ‘something’ said to be hiv, but is now cured of and have a healthy immunity against every catching it again?
Do understand that the meds and the whole experiment is on a trail bases, meaning, it’s to stand back and watch and see what happens to a person forced, or given, the meds. It’s not about healing or curing anyone, because again, dear WallyJ; there just isn’t any money in curing people anymore. So maybe there’s a bigger picture that a lot of people just can’t see because they constantly programmed to think the worst about sex.
Again, I find it hard that the nurse: www.nypress.com/18/30/news...mscheff.cfm would want to stand up and lie by what she saw and participated in, because, besides; what does she have to gain or lose? –her job?
I can understand the humans neurological capacity to want to shield away and avoid any evidence that may ask him/her to reconsider, if they’ve been programmed ‘a belief’ by companies they’ve put there trust in. I think that’s where it is hard for the public to even contemplate that their very own health and government officials have not be honest with forthcoming. But, it’s not (some) of the medical establishments being sadistic either because they are being told what to think and do from above ----and I don’t mean from the heavens;-).
What I find so odd is that the same paper, covered both stories, both the link you place here Wally, and the link I place. Hmmmm. Also keep in mind, neither you, nor I, nor not many people, have any control of the over exacerbated so-called ‘estimated number of cases’ that the health and aids organizations can just make up at will.
Peace,
Terry -
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Unsu...
Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:47 PMYes, I understand, Terry. What you are failing to grasp is that many of the people who disagree with you have done so after considerable and capable research of their own. You, Gos, and Tomas all come across as though anyone who disagrees with you simply hasn't educated theirselves, and simply hasn't seen the light.
You are not qualified to say who sees which lights.
You failed to address the entire purpose of the program that allows foster children to partake in the same clinical trials as the children of the rich and famous...in fact, you don't mention it at all... I don't care either way, but it is notable on many levels.
When it comes to understanding this virus from a cellular level and the functional level of an RNA retrovirus, neither you, Tomas, or Gos have made any statement that indicates you have the first clue about how it actually works. In fact, comments to the effect of "antibody tests indicating resistance" show a considerable amount of ignorance on the subject of HIV at the viral functional level...
I just talked to Dr. Fishbein, and he claims to be misrepresented in Scheff's articles about the children at ICC... How could that be... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 7:22 PMYes, I understand, Terry. What you are failing to grasp is that many of the people who disagree with you have done so after considerable and capable research of their own. You, Gos, and Tomas all come across as though anyone who disagrees with you simply hasn't educated theirselves, and simply hasn't seen the light.
97% of the Guys in here had no clue that there was Another Side of AIDS information or knew that Denialists have been isolated..
You are not qualified to say who sees which lights.
Who needs to be qualified to READ WARNINGS and RESEARCH ?? Any fifth grader can Smell Money hungry Scientists a mile away..
You failed to address the entire purpose of the program that allows foster children to partake in the same clinical trials as the children of the rich and famous...in fact, you don't mention it at all... I don't care either way, but it is notable on many levels.
it's a SHAME that ANY Child is a Clinical trial.
When it comes to understanding this virus from a cellular level and the functional level of an RNA retrovirus, neither you, Tomas, or Gos have made any statement that indicates you have the first clue about how it actually works.
YEAH WELL PROFESSOR Wally MY FIRST QUESTION WAS NEVER ANSWERED EITHER...Some Guys get all the breaks...
In fact, comments to the effect of "antibody tests indicating resistance" show a considerable amount of ignorance on the subject of HIV at the viral functional level...
Wally why is that we are ignorant and you aren't? Are you a Scientist or Something? Do you have Credentials? Are you Afilliated with the CDC,NIH,WHO,UNAIDS, Are You independant in HIV and AID$ Research? Why Should we Trust you?
I just talked to Dr. Fishbein, and he claims to be misrepresented in Scheff's articles about the children at ICC... How could that be...
I think GOS,Terry and I Are Well aware of the Corruption at the NIH,CDC, and in South Africa is there a Motive behind Liam's articles we don't know about Professor Wally?
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:39 AMGood Questioning is Healthy ... Dr Fishbein has whistle blower protection now from the HIV goons at the NIH.
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:55 AMI'm not gonna call any PEOPLE Nazis, Wally, but let me ask you something: If you were able to actually produce photos of PURIFIED VIRAL ISOLATE like I've been asking you to do for two days now, would it look like a tiny Swastika?
The reason I ask is that I can't imagine how HIV would know to pick its victims according to race, sexual orientation, and other criteria from the same list of criteria that Hitler used to pick his targets. How smart does HIV have to be to do that?
According to your buddies at the CDC, the average African-American is 10x more likely to die from what the Morbidity and Mortality Report calls "HIV Disease" than a Euro-American ("white boi" to you.) How does it know how to pick its victims like that? This is a serious question, Wally, I'm not just trying to pick an argument here -- explain to me why it is, in your opinion, that HIV picks black victims on a 10:1 ratio compared to whites.
How does it know the sexual orientation of its victims, so that it is able to cause KS in gay males but not in any other demographic (and interestingly enough, ONLY in gay males who abuse poppers, no less)?
How does it know the geographic location of its victims, so that it can be a predominantly heterosexual disease which affects males and females equally in Africa, but which affects mostly males (and mostly gay males at that) everywhere else?
--- Gos
P.S. 4 proofs, Wally. Produce them, or you are my bitch, right here in front of God and everyone. -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:30 AMOk please have you all looked at the post here are abotu four of you basicly talking each other how smart you areand how you this guy or that guy SO what the fact is that men are dying out there in the "REAL WORLD" and really what is this all? you wanna prove somethin how about you stop being a I am smarter then you. if someone wnats stop the meds or never go on them then it not your biz to tell they are right or wrong as for "THE TEST" I have been tested and I have come back POS and NEG now I have been tested 6 times and I only once did I came back pos and 5 time negs so there must be a flaw in the test, As for the fact that you all need to pontifacat (SP) about all of this get over all of yourself please You all seem like nice poeple so hey lets talk about someting else!!! Again how did it come to this from a queston aabout weather you care about your parterns are pov or neg??????? Oh yeah guys stop being so gid damn mean to each other!!!!! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:49 AM"Ok please have you all looked at the post here are abotu four of you basicly talking each other how smart you areand how you this guy or that guy SO what the fact is that men are dying out there in the "REAL WORLD" and really what is this all? you wanna prove somethin how about you stop being a I am smarter then you. if someone wnats stop the meds or never go on them then it not your biz to tell they are right or wrong as for "THE TEST" I have been tested and I have come back POS and NEG now I have been tested 6 times and I only once did I came back pos and 5 time negs so there must be a flaw in the test, As for the fact that you all need to pontifacat (SP) about all of this get over all of yourself please You all seem like nice poeple so hey lets talk about someting else!!! Again how did it come to this from a queston aabout weather you care about your parterns are pov or neg??????? Oh yeah guys stop being so gid damn mean to each other!!!!! "
Amen, Dominic.
--- Gos -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 3:18 AMOK sorry about all the typos guys but you get the point right? -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 4:03 AMDominic,
I get the point, and I agree with you 100%. This flame war solves nothing.
I do want to point out, though, that this flame war was started by Wally, Jake, and Philip long before I entered this forum. Upon joining the conversation, I was dumb enough to let them drag me into the mud with them, but if you'll notice, I have insulted no one who hadn't already insulted me or someone else already. Anyone who is man enough to dish it out should be man enough to take it, don't you agree?
As for those who have raised intelligent challenges to dissident views, I've responded intelligently, and for those who have asked honest questions, I've answered honestly. Those who choose to live by the sword shall die by it, however.
--- Gos -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 8:32 AMpardon me but you haven't responded at all.
"As for those who have raised intelligent challenges to dissident views, I've responded intelligently, " -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 9:01 AMpardon me but you haven't responded at all.
"As for those who have raised intelligent challenges to dissident views, I've responded intelligently, "
Actually, Matthew, I responded to some intelligent challenges you raised only the other day. In case you missed it, however, here's a re-post:
"this thread is sad..."
You're right, Matthew, it is sad. Before I entered the conversation, you and Terry were the only people in the entire room who had anything intelligent to contribute to the debate, including the rantings of my good friend Tomas, who was allowing a bunch of knuckle-dragging feces throwers who measure their scientific qualifications in AOL inches to drag him through the mud and letting them get to him and make him rant, rather than presenting the intelligent arguments I know he's capable of.
You, on the other hand, have raised intelligent challenges to the dissident arguments, and as such, I'm going to respond to you intelligently.
Matthew wrote: "but what is behind questioning the best explanation available for aids? not that all science should not constantly be under question, that's how science functions. but most hiv/aids denial seems to differ from constructive questioning in that it carries along with it insistence on ambiguity. it is the attachment to this ambiguity that seems to motivate most aids denial."
You're absolutely right, Matthew -- most dissident arguments hinge on ambiguity -- this or that isn't proven, but none of us can offer proof that his particular pet hypothesis is, in fact, 100% correct. We can't even agree amongst ourselves on something as simple as whether HIV even exists, much less any role it may or may not have in AIDS.
However, as I pointed out earlier, Galileo himself never claimed to be 100% correct, nor was he. It was the Church that claimed infallibility, on a hypothesis for which there was no scientific support, and much observable evidence to the contrary. Now, just because the Church was wrong about astronomy, that doesn't necessarily mean that the AIDS orthodoxy are wrong about AIDS, but it does mean that they DO have to prove, unambiguously, their claim that HIV is the cause of AIDS, and after 25 years and billions of dollars spent, they still have yet to do that.
I could waste hours and hours of both of our time explaining all the different reasons why this is so, but I'd prefer to be brief, and I'm sure you'd appreciate it. Therefore I simply want to offer you a challenge for yourself: The next few times that some article in some reputable scientific journal is published, (as has happened in JAMA and Lancet in just the past few weeks) whose results startle the entire community of AIDS scientists, because it's exactly the opposite of what they're expecting to find, ask yourself one question: "Would I be surprised by this if I didn't believe that HIV was the cause of AIDS, or if I believed that HIV were nonexistent, or would it be pretty much exactly what I'd expect?"
Having asked myself that very question more times than I can count in the past 5 years, I can tell you that if the next 5 years of discovery about AIDS is the same as what I've observed in the headlines over and over again, you'll find yourself saying, over and over, "Hell, this is EXACTLY what I'd expect if I didn't believe that HIV was the cause of AIDS!" Try it, you just might surprise yourself. As a former believer in HIV, I can certainly attest that the anwer to that very question surprised the hell out of me when I first realized the answer.
You wrote: "what are the implications in terms of personal responsibility and actual behavior of having it be completely up in the air what causes and spreads aids? what does that say about the motivations of aids deniers?"
Your question reminds me of a very intelligent question asked by a caller to a radio show I occasionally host, who asked, "What are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that people shouldn't use condoms, that they shouldn't get tested, or that they shouldn't take antiretrovirals?"
I'll answer you like I answered him: I'm not telling you you should or shouldn't use condoms, get tested, or take ARVs. What I AM saying is that those are decisions that YOU should make for YOURSELF, after having examined all of the evidence you can find, all of the arguments you can find, and come to some decision as to what YOU believe.
Don't take anyone else's word for the decisions YOU should make for YOUR OWN health and YOUR OWN life, and for God's sake, don't take my word for anything. But while you're not taking my word for anything, don't take the word of some guys in an internet forum who claim to be scientists, but who have yet to prove that they have one whit of actual scientific knowledge, and don't take the word of Gallo, Duesberg, Montagnier, Mullis, Ho, Papadapolus, Fauci, Rasnick, Baltimore, or others who ARE reputable scientists -- just because they're reputable doesn't mean they can't be wrong. (Hell, Dr. Mullis thinks he met aliens from outer space, and I say that as a fellow dissident and an admirer of Mullis, who has already cited Mullis repeatedly. Notwithstanding this, I still say that if you examine it, Dr. Gallo's claim to have shaken hands with "the virus that causes AIDS" is twice as ridiculous as Mullis' claim to have shaken hands with E.T.) Get the facts for yourself, and decide for yourself.
Personal responsibility is the only form of social responsibility there is. Your personal responsibility is to educate yourself and make up your own mind, and take whatever action you deem appropriate, rather than relying on anyone else to tell you what you should do, particularly when it comes to protecting yourself against diseases like AIDS.
"i'm hesitant to bring it up as it seems cheap but is it not possible that aids denial is largely a way of dealing with the emotional pain of finding out that one is hiv+? or even the fear of becoming hiv+, especially if one has a lifestyle that makes one highly at risk?"
Don't be hesitant to bring it up -- it's a valid concern. And speaking for HIV-positives like myself, Tomas, Christine Maggiore, Kim Bannon, and others, I have to concede to you on that point -- we DO have every reason not to want to believe that HIV is the cause of AIDS.
However, this does not explain the positions of people like Mullis, Duesberg, Culshaw, and others, who would actually be better off if they played along and said that HIV really was the cause of AIDS. Duesberg, as a prominent retrovirologist, could make a killing as an HIV researcher, as could Dr. Culshaw, who has spent 10 years of her life as a mainstream HIV researcher, working in the field of biomathematics. Mullis, who invented the PCR technique which is supposedly used to count viral particles in an AIDS patient's blood, stands to lose big time, should he manage to convince people that he is right about HIV, because it would mean that his main claim to fame (for which he won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1993, no less) is absolutely useless in the diagnosis and treatment of AIDS.
Why would any of these people be in denial? What do they stand to gain by it, as opposed to what they would gain if they'd never spoken up about their legitimate doubts about HIV and AIDS? Think about that -- you can accuse me of being in denial all you want and I cannot defend myself, but by that very same standard, some of the most prominent "denialists" in the fray are utterly unimpeachable, and in fact appear to be acting contrary to their own economic and political interests. Either they're right and they're among the bravest souls on the planet for raising their voices to speak Truth to Power, or they're wrong and they're the stupidest people on the planet.
But again, as an intelligent human being, it is your responsibility to yourself and to those you love (or even just have sex with), to educate yourself and decide for yourself. If I am irresponsible for saying so, then I guess I'm irresponsible.
--- Gos
P.S. I'm not in denial, I'm in West Denial. Look at the map of the progression of WNV in the US found at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prog...ted_States -- the data for these maps were generated by the CDC, and similar maps can be found at their website. Notice how WNV barrelled right through Colorado and Arizona on its way to California. Now tell me why a mosquito- and bird-borne virus would make a beeline for the Desert Southwest like that, rather than traveling to California via a northern route, following the densest concentrations of mosquitoes and birds. In fact, in 2004, the very first cases of the year were found in Arizona and New Mexico, before the beginning of the mosquito season -- think about that, it doesn't make sense.
Now think about this for a second, because it makes a whole lot more sense. The CDC is a bureaucracy, whose bureaucrats, (like all bureaucrats everywhere) must justify their funding -- in the case of the CDC, this is by "finding" and "preventing" as many "infectious pandemics" as they can, and by making these appear to be as scary as possible, to get maximum funding. What if it just happens to be a slow decade, quarter century, or half century? How do you justify your funding, so that you'll have plenty of resources if/when an actual pandemic arises? Simple -- you have to make up pandemics and then pretend to prevent them from becoming major disasters (which is a whole lot easier than battling an actual pandemic anyway, since it's really nothing more than a straw man.) This has been going on ever since Legionnaire's Disease, which was the first such made-up pandemic since modern science closed the book on actual infectious diseases in the middle of the 20th Century. -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 9:12 AMthat was not a response, it was you using my posts as a jumping point to continue using precisely the same tactics i criticized. -
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Unsu...
270 posts
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 12:40 PMGoddamn!!!
This is a LONG conversation. I can't even keep up.
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MATTHEW
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 7:36 PMARE YOU AND JAKE RELATED? ARE YOU STUPID?
How is that Responses suddenly become TACTICS? Why do you Shoe horn things to fit your Psyche?
Get for real you are not perfect and definitely confused... ask a better question or don't at all..
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:10 PM" OK sorry about all the typos guys but you get the point right? "
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Certainly I get it...it was horribly selfish and self-centered of me to want the truth about the HIV virus (an RNA retrovirus) to be made available in the face of the rhetoric of death from Tomas and Gos.
You're so right, I'll never contribute anything meaninful on Tribe ever again...just fluffy bunnies and warm fuzzies from now on... -
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 2:27 PMNotice how Tomas incorrectly spell the word "Meds" with "Medz".
And this doesn't sound like the language of 13 year old Boys who sit home all day in front of their Playstations? and what of all those $ symbols for the letter "S"?
Tomas you need to grow UP and talk to men like a MAN you type like a 13 year old Schoolgirl!. -
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ATTENTION FORUM BUT JAKE IS DOWN RIGHT PATHETIC!
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 7:43 PMOMG PEOPLE!
THIS OLD GUY JAKE IS A FUCKING RIDICULOUS MORON!
I PURPOSELY SPELLED MEDS AS "MEDZ" BECAUSE POS IS ALWAYS "POZ" In HIV Lingo and he is Suppose to be a Pioneer in Full blown AIDS...
More like ALZHEIMERS! GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSHH!
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DOMINIC
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 3:53 AMOk please have you all looked at the post here are abotu four of you basicly talking each other how smart you areand how you this guy or that guy SO what the fact is that men are dying out there in the "REAL WORLD" and really what is this all?
Dominic this so true, however there is an Ongoing blood battle (between Scientists) Re~thinking AIDS rethinkingaids.com/ and AIDS Truther's aidstruth.org/ and yes people are dying but for 25 years we have all been told it's HIV( A retrovirus) that is depleting the planet. The AID$ Industry has gained 170 Billion in Government funds (or more),Haven't saved or Cured a Single Soul,Began using AZT a Cancer Chemo-Therapy Poison to treat so-called AIDS Patients that ended in Iatrogenic Poisoning rather than "HIV Control",Produced Other Lethal Drugs that cause Human deformities and Death,Poisoned and Killed Hundreds of thousands of Animals in their research,Produced Non Specific Tests to Identify AIDS patients with 100% Uncertainty,Destroyed Lives and families.
Typical of the AIDS truthers is to Claim Denialism Kills when the very Structure of their government Funding and Foundation is Poisonous HIV/AIDS Drugs which many of them have failed Clinical Trials and have been shown to Kill. And This Dominic is all that they have. They promised a Vaccine or cure by 1986 its now almost 2007 and all we have are rumors and inconsistent research.
you wanna prove somethin how about you stop being a I am smarter then you.
This would be Nice Dominic but Re Thinkers are a Threat to the AIDS Industry and their Jobs...Everything they have been Teaching all of these years Cannot go in Vain..There is an Economic Power within the AIDS Industry that Controls the Media and every opportunity to settle this battle... AIDS Research will Ignore the Truth and Claim the Truth because so Much Money Pumped into it. Some AIDS Apologists are calm while the Majority of them in Corporate Positions of the Industry do well to Protect their Finances. It is a Shame that When these issues come up the(great HIV/AIDS debate) most followers don't want to believe that they have been had and form a denial attack against Rethinkers or Denialists.
if someone wnats stop the meds or never go on them then it not your biz to tell they are right or wrong
This Is Very True Dominic but People Should Be Informed so they can make up their Own Mind and the Problem is that the Other side of AIDS information is surpressed and therefore People don't really get the chance at making up their own mind because the HIV Industry has for the Most part made it up for them. Without the knowledge people follow them religiously.
as for "THE TEST" I have been tested and I have come back POS and NEG now I have been tested 6 times and I only once did I came back pos and 5 time negs so there must be a flaw in the test,
This doesn't Surprise me.
As for the fact that you all need to pontifacat (SP) about all of this get over all of yourself please You all seem like nice poeple so hey lets talk about someting else!!!
Dominic I seriously understand but did you know that our OWN gay Community is now going backwards after all of these years and Assuring the Fred Phelps,NARTH,PATH and many other ANTI-GAY Organizations that "HIV is a GAY DISEASE"?
www.OWNITENDIT.org
These are the Inconsistencies of the AID$ Industry to almost a Conspiracy theory of "Gay Men" the Reality Check for every gay man is that we are Not Welcomed here on the Planet.
Again how did it come to this from a queston aabout weather you care about your parterns are pov or neg???????
If you Scroll up I asked the Person a simple question who Began this Thread to define in some way what "Status" or "HIV Status" means then the 'Midnight Snack Eating" HIV Apologists jumped the gun Immediately rather than My First Question be answered I was Bombarded with Attacks and Questions from Wally Wilson and others. This is Typical however I admit My Demeanor and My attitude stooped to their Level of attacks.
Oh yeah guys stop being so gid damn mean to each other!!!!!
AIDS Apologists Believe that Denialism Kills While Rethinkers or HIV Denialists believe that HIV/AIDS Drugs are extremely non specific and Kill beyond the abilities of Retroviruses.
Thanks Dominic
Tomás -
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Re: DOMINIC
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 4:10 AMOne More thing..
I Hadn't been to the Website in a Couple of weeks it Seems that the HIV Industry "Came down" on the LA Gay and Lesbian Center...It Pissed ALOT of People off.
The Site is No Longer Working Obviously the Campaign Stained a Moment in History of the so-called HIV/AIDS epidemic claiming that statistics shown that a higher percentage of Gay Men were infected in LA so this meant that HIV is a Gay Disease..
No Matter How hard they Try (They Can Never Take back what they have Done).
www.google.com/search
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:50 PMFine, Dominc... It's all yours...
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Re: That has _what_ to do with Liam Scheff's Self-Aggrandization?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 4:36 AMWally wrote: "But, explain ... the "NAZI" thing..."
Explain to me, Wally, these similarities to Nazism:
Hitler incarcerated Jews who had sex with German women. In America, we incarcerate black HIV-positives who have sex with white women.
Hitler primarily targeted gays, non-whites, and immigrants. Ditto for the virus whose very existence you have yet to prove, after I've been asking you to do so for days.
Hitler condoned cruel medical experiments being performed on children. Despite your attacks on Liam Scheff to support your denialism, according to the Associated Press, the BBC, and the Boston Globe, the experiments Scheff wrote about actually took place. Hide your head in the sand all you want, but it's a fact: These children were subjected to drug toxicity experiments, NOT drug benefit studies -- many of them were administered dosages of ARVs six times higher than the dosage prescribed for an adult, specifically to study the toxic effects of the drugs. Your slander against Liam Scheff is just as meaningful as your slander against Peter Duesberg -- in either case, it's just some bitter queen with a death wish attacking people whose arguments he can't impeach, because he can't admit to himself that the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s was caused by abuse of poppers and antibiotics. By definition, that's an ad hominem attack, and as such is meaningless, except where it exposes your ignorance and lack of a leg to stand on.
Hitler forced Jews and homosexuals to wear special armbands so that they could be easily identified by the public. The armbands worn by Jews had a Star-of-David logo, and the armbands worn by homosexuals had a pink triangle. Admittedly, nothing like that has been done YET to HIV-positives in America, but no less than William F. Buckley has suggested that we get tattooed so that people can identify us.
One of Hitler's first acts against Jews and homosexuals was to force them all to register with the government. Currently the US Government maintains a registry of everyone who tests positive for HIV.
You can dismiss Tomas all you want for accusing you of Nazism, but you can't ignore the parallels between the way America deals with HIV-positives and the way the Nazis dealt with "undesirables". Genocide is genocide.
In fact, it was less than 6 years ago (Jan 15, 2001) that the German High Court ruled that the German government had knowingly made false statements to the effect that HIV has been proven to be the cause of AIDS, that HIV tests are accurate, and that ARVs had been proven effective. I want you to look at the wording of that verdict: According to the High Court, the German Parliament KNEW that HIV had never been proven to cause AIDS, and that ARVs had never been proven to prevent AIDS, and that HIV tests have never been verified.
The reason that this is significant in a discussion about the parallels between AIDS and Nazism is that this was part of a larger effort to charge the German government under German genocide laws that were passed in the post-Hitler era, under the rationale that their knowingly making these false statements was tantamount to targeting specific groups for poisoning with ARVs.
--- Gos -
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Attention: GOS
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 4:58 AMGos Please Do me a Favor?
Pretty Please?
Please Do Not Respond or Acknowledge Jake.
It's not Only ridiculous but pointless.. Im sure he can yack yack away with someone else.. -
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Re: Attention: GOS
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 5:01 AMTomas
If you'll notice, I have yet to do so, other than in my initial post. He has yet to contribute anything of substance to the debate, and as such, is not worthy of my time. (Which, come to think of it, makes me wonder why I'm bothering with Wally, except that it causes him to expose his ignorance and the ignorance of the orthodoxy to everyone else here with every post.)
--- Gos -
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Unsu...
Re: Attention: GOS
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:53 PMYou flatter yourself.
Have a nice day with your rhetoric of murder.
My points are made, they stand soundly, and since you disagree with me you simply deny, deny, deny...and always in the most personally-insulting manner as is possible.
Well, you're welcome to it...
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 1:38 PMJeez, this thread is like a bad accident. I just can't help but look every time I log into Tribe. -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 4:41 PMLOL! I know exactly what you mean, Selma!
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 7:50 PMSelma so how do you feel about the Status of your sexual partners? Small, Big, or Large? :-) -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 11:24 PMThere is no such language as "HIV Lingo" Tomas. HIV Language is written in the Language of SCIENCE and Scientist's do not end every word with a "Z" but Little boyZ do..
Your text is written in "Junior High School Street Lingo" Boyz..Toyz..Bro'z...anything with a Z on the end is Junior High School stuff....."BOI" But..a Junior High School level of intelligence is about what wev'e come to expect of you Tomas,especially the way your post's are written..
BTW ...hows it coming with that Playstation-3 did you get yours yet Liddle Boi?
My Nephew got His and he's only 13! -
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Re: HIV today~Do you care about the status of your sexual partners?
Fri, December 8, 2006 - 11:29 PMOh and Tomas
It's not me that has a problem with your Mommy its you Boi!
It's evident in the writings right here in your post's. Didn't you know that liddle bois leave mommy home at your age?
Or..perhaps Tomas is one liddle boi still at home WITH his Mommy?
perhaps this is why he can sit all day in front of his Playstation. -
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PS 3 rocks JAKE
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 2:27 AMHEY jake I am getting a PS3 and i am 37 and soon to be 38 so what is your point about that? -
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Re: PS 3 rocks JAKE
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 7:14 AMThe point Dominic isn't Gaming,some of my freinds in their 50's own an X-box 360
It's the context that Tomas wrote in one of his Postings about making HIV Medications destroying healthy cells into a Playstation Game.
He opened up a "Pandora's Box" of both rudeness and insensitivity toward persons who have AIDS and I am just choking the little fuck with it.
LONG LIVE Playstation! (even though the graphics are better in X-Box 360!)
Do I do Gaming? Yes,but on my high-end Computer as I don't have a High-Definition Tv Monitor for Playstation-3 or X-Box 360. Without a High Definition TV set you aren't getting the quality of either game's resolution capability. -
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Unsu...
Re: PS 3 rocks JAKE
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 7:25 AMLong Live Playstation?
Long Live Medal Of Honour!
and I wont be getting a PS3 until they've been in the pawnshops for at least 6 months and who the fuck cares about HD t.v. when your fighting the good fight against the forces of evil?
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MPD
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:33 PM"Jake Scott is one hell of a friend and a great guy to play around with. He makes you feel at home, loves to speak his mind also with the other 2 personalities that are in his head. " -
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Re: MPD
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:53 PMNice to see you put up one of my Profiles accolades.
You know what Tomas?
why don't you go fuck yourself with the joystick on your Playstation?
2 personalities..YEAH I got those one is NICE and the other is here to FUCK with assholes like YOU liddle boi RUN Liddle Tomas! Run home to Mommy...go home your Mammas calling you Tomas. I'm surprised you can even talk in your 13yroldesque language becasue your Momma definatly dropped YOU on your head.
BTW...isn't there a Playstation with YOUR name on it liddle boi?
Did you get your Playstation Tomas? didya didya..Ohh c'mon child. DO tell us you didnt miss out on last weeks release of the brand NEW Shiny Black Plastic Playstation-3? -
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Re: MPD
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:54 PMOhh PLEASE TELL US TOMAS!
Didya get it? -
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Re: MPD
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:57 PMTomas to his Mommy:
MOM get me my fuckin PLAYSTATION-3 DAMN YOU!
Mommy to Tomas:
Why you wretched little BRAT,the Ivory's on the Kitchen Counter..go take a bite out of it and do as your TOLD ...and NO milk and Cookies for YOU tonight! -
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Re: MPD
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:59 PMTomas...did you get YOUR Playstation-3 at Toys R Us your favorite store?
C'mon boi tell us we have "Enquiring Minds" and Enquiring Minds GOTTA KNOW! -
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Re: MPD
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 11:12 PM<what is the point of all of this>
There isn't any Dominic
This Thread was destroyed by Tomas and his anti-AIDS Crusade
So now it's become a fun thread!
Incidentally Tomas...did you get your Playstation Game called "HIV and The Runaway T Cell" started yet? I'm still sure Atari is quite interested in it.
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DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 7:36 AMTry to understand something here Jake has chosen his Position because he takes pride in being the "Pioneer" of HIV/AIDS and as Most of us here who don't know him we can ONLY judge his "word" by taking the position of being the common AIDS Statistic and the long term survivor.. most PWA's when countered with the dissident perspective use the "Martian Argument" to counteract any new information which is not really new but to them they can't allow it to filter..."People have died of HIV I'Ve SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES".
From the content of his posts he has accused me of many things which are not relevant here because of his Childish state-of mind.
Someone here emailed me from this forum and made me realize something (I Won't Mention any Names) My Goal is to share my Story and my walk with the HIV Industry and the Other Side of AIDS Information and this needs to be done because so many are falling victim and becoming Immune to Toxic Fatal Drugs which Ultimately end in their Death.
Jake deserves no Reply or Responses to that of a Video game or any other ludicrous concept however if Jake changes his approach then we can address him however until then the flame war must end...
Also Dominic it is Typical of HIV Apologists to claim that any HIV Denialist claims from the past, present or future is either Out dated or OLD and thats where their argument fails because all of this goes into the Historical Record and is a Hallmark of Information where The Medical Journals Receive Countless new Studies and the Theories for the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis and they indeed Change Constantly.
I am Posting an Article from Bob Findle this is an interesting read and it is so very very true...
Perhaps Jake and other will read it too..
THE FEAR OF LOSING HIV By Bob Findle
What?
Is that headline a typo? Shouldn’t it be "Fear of Getting HIV?" No. We do not need another article about the fear of getting HIV. We understand that fear. It has been skillfully and unrelentingly marketed to us by the HIV/AIDS industry until HIV=AIDS=DEATH is accepted without question, without proof, and obvious contradictions brushed aside without regard.
But what is this fear of losing HIV?
Before I start, I should explain what losing HIV would be. The end of AIDS can only begin by losing HIV from the equation. All HIV treatments, cures and hysteria have to go. HIV is a dead end. False representations and promotion of HIV have to stop. The AIDS defining diseases must be unlinked and treated as the separate conditions they are. The solution for AIDS will happen when the real (not HIV) multi-factorial causes of immune suppression are allowed to be addressed. Losing HIV would mean seeing that we believe in HIV because that is all we have been taught to believe in, all we are presented with and allowed to see.
Being vocal about my HIV disbelief gives me an opportunity to observe the community’s response to anti-HIV information. Often the emotion is fear being displayed as anger, sarcasm, utter incomprehension, nervousness, etc. I questioned this, not understanding why information clearly showing that HIV is not causing AIDS and that AIDS is nothing more than a medical construct would be feared. Shouldn’t this be good news? Or at least information to be considered? I have come to realize that one of the reasons HIV is still with us as a valid theory, when it should have been dumped a long time ago, is that people fear questioning HIV, fear losing it, and fear even hearing a single word against it. I have come to see just how powerful the HIV mindset is. What does it mean if HIV is taken away? The obvious loss is that there would no longer be a viral theory to blame AIDS on. This causes fear in people because it brings out the question of lifestyle factors. For example, people do not want the very obvious link between drugs and AIDS to be promoted. People fear that if HIV is taken away, AIDS may be seen as being only a gay problem (which it is not) and there will be no more research, concern, or interest. The HIV/AIDS gurus fear their anti-virals, prescription drugs, or other HIV procedures being identified as immune suppressive, life destroying, and causing, not stopping AIDS conditions.
But the fear goes much deeper. Look at gay media. HIV/AIDS has become the major defining piece of our consciousness. Everything is HIV/AIDS industry advertisements, services and support, HIV/AIDS news, HIV/AIDS art, entertainment, fund-raisers and social events. This deluge can not be blamed totally on the media producers since they can only give their audience what that audience believes in. Is it any wonder why average Americans can not see gay men as a separate entity from HIV/AIDS? We surely can not even do it ourselves. HIV/AIDS, overtly or covertly, underscores everything. It pulls us together, gives us a focus, a cause, a commonality. The gay community has designed and lives in a total HIV-based culture, both individually and collectively. To have HIV challenged causes great anxiety since humans fear and resist any challenge to what is accepted as reality, even if that reality can be shown as false, which HIV=AIDS can be. This clinging to an HIV reality/identity goes deep. Psychologists have noted that they are seeing more and more gay men who are disturbed by their HIV negative status. These men feel left out and not quite complete. Is the equation actually GAY=HIV=GAY?
Losing HIV/AIDS would mean experiencing and working through a huge shift in consciousness. Do we stick with HIV because it is what we are comfortable with and it is easier than questioning it and looking at what lies beyond? I believe so. To lose HIV we have to accept some rather unpalatable realities. We have to see that we placed too much faith in the medical and scientific communities, trusting them to look out for us, ultimately to save us. I need to be clear that I am not trying to indict every person working within the HIV/AIDS structure as having ulterior motives. While we do have HIV/AIDS specialists and researchers who are truly incompetents, hiding their mediocrity and mistakes behind HIV, blaming it and not themselves for people’s sickness and death, we have many dedicated, competent people in this field who truly believe HIV is something to be combated and they are giving their all. My issue is with the policy makers at the CDC, the NIH, pharmaceutical companies, government agencies, and huge HIV/AIDS organizations who produce the directives instructing the front-line workers what to believe about AIDS and what to do. We have to acknowledge that their goals and focus are not always in our best interest and there are often severe conflicts of interest stemming from greed and egos. We have to deal with the knowledge that HIV has never been a mistake. An honest mistake we could understand for humans make mistakes. But to lose HIV we must comprehend that we were methodically and purposely deceived and lied to from the very beginning and every attempt to challenge the deception was systematically squelched by the people doing the deceiving. This is not an easy realization. Nobody wants to believe that we could have been so duped, so abused. Just as the abused child, even when presented with the painful truth of their abuse, continues to refuse to believe it was Daddy who hurt them, the gay community must continue to believe in HIV and trust that the HIV/AIDS industry would never be guilty of harming us. For to believe otherwise means the next logical conclusion must be arrived at. And there is the fear. What have we, by our complacency and unquestioning faith, allowed to happen? The tremendous pain and suffering we as a community have dealt with all these years can never be measured. People making radical choices and major changes in their lives due to HIV. Millions upon millions of dollars bled from us, mainly in support of HIV. Horrific drugs and life destroying treatments to battle HIV. The ones we loved and cherished dead, we are told from HIV, when it was actually the treatments. Truly immune compromised people dead because the real cause of their conditions not addressed. To see HIV as the mistake it is, to lose HIV, we must see and somehow manage to accept that all this misery was largely avoidable and unnecessary.
The HIV/AIDS industry has their own valid fear of losing HIV. They know that once the HIV debacle is finally exposed, in addition to the loss of their ill-gotten fame and fortune, they will have to face the tidal wave of anger and rage from the people whose lives have been destroyed. They know they have to keep HIV going at any cost. And they succeed since they control the research, the protocols, the funding.
They have the money and positions to promote whatever they want regardless of truth. they succeed because we give them total control to do so. But they are starting to lose this control. More scientists and doctors are overcoming their own personal fears of being criticized for daring to speak against HIV. The media is slowly letting us see the dissentient movement. More groups are forming to combat the HIV misinformation machines.
I can understand why there is a fear of losing HIV. The aftermath will not be easy on any level for anyone. But we must not let this fear stop us from really looking at what is happening. HIV=AIDS will never be proven and the real evidence shows it should be rejected. The hunt for an HIV cure is a gold mine for the HIV/AIDS industry but a waste of our time, money and lives. To let HIV=AIDS stand without challenge we collectively agree to condemn hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to death. We have to confront our fears, acknowledge the slaughter of the HIV years, and move forward to stop any more HIV genocide. WE have to march on Washington, protest, demand change, free ourselves from HIV, not ask for more of the same. Open your minds people, risk facing your fears, let HIV go, see that the answers to AIDS are already here.
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:41 AMI speak to Tomas as that of a Man speaking to a teen boi
wich is what your level of Intellect is Tomas
Speak like a MAN and you will be responded to as a Man.
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:44 AMThe sick "laughable" nature of your latest Posting reflects you child-like Intellect Tomas.
Come On Tomas you profess to be in your thirties,isn't it time to put those childhood Fantasies you have about AIDS/HIV to rest? -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:49 AM<To Counteract New Information>??
I am glad your Childs View Of AIDS makes you think that "The Perth Group" is "NEW" Information on HIV/AIDS Tomas. The HIV Virus wich you dispute as being real is constantly evolving and changing to the point that last WEEKS news on it is "old News".
Information on AIDS that is more than five years old is "Scientifically Useless"
The Perth Groups Core Information wich they use to support their theory that HIV/AIDS is a Myth is from the early 1990's Tomas. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
The PERTH GROUP died with ELVIS! ALL HIV THEORIES MUST CHANGE CONSTANTLY to CAUSE AIDS
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 4:55 PM
*THE AUSTRALIAN*
Accused denies existence of HIV
Jeremy Roberts
October 26, 2006
AN HIV-positive man convicted of endangering the lives of three girlfriends is attempting to turn conventional science on its head by denying the existence of the virus that leads to AIDS.
Andre Chad Parenzee was convicted in February of endangering the lives of three women and faces 15 years in prison. One of the women now has HIV.
This week, he enlisted the expert evidence of two self-styled researchers - both members of the so-called Perth Group - who have used the witness stand to attack the "HIV myth".
In what is believed to be an international legal and medical first, South Australian Supreme Court judge John Sulan has set aside two weeks effectively to put HIV on trial.
Prosecutors have prepared several expert witnesses to shore up more than two decades of global research - which underpins public health and safe sex campaigns - that HIV causes AIDS and is contracted through unprotected sex.
Prosecutors objected in this week's leave-to-appeal hearing to Parenzee's witnesses' status as "experts" but Justice Sulan said he would address the objection after their evidence was heard.
The court heard argument from Parenzee's counsel, Kevin Borick, who is working pro bono, that his client's conviction cannot stand if HIV is based on flimsy science.
His expert witnesses received no money for their appearance this week, but their airfares from Perth were paid for by Parenzee's mother.
Perth-based medical physicist Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos, who has a Bachelor of Science and works as a medical engineer at Royal Perth Hospital, told the court that HIV was mistakenly identified by a French scientific team in 1983, which was headed by Luc Montagnier.
In a 50-page Powerpoint presentation, Ms Papadopulos-Eleopulos said AIDS had nothing to do with HIV, which - if it existed at all - was not a retrovirus and not transmitted between people by sexual intercourse.
Ms Papadopulos-Eleopulos argued that HIV had never been isolated, and was only identified in 1983 by a process called "reverse transcription", which is said to create retroviruses.
She said the reverse transcription observed by Dr Montagnier in 1983, the so-called "discovery of HIV", was not specific to HIV.
She said the main risk factors for getting AIDS remained the passive role in anal intercourse, and intravenous drug use.
Ms Papadopulos-Eleopulos claimed AIDS was caused by prolonged exposure to semen, which oxidised cells, degrading them and led to numerous other serious illnesses - the AIDS-related illnesses - which end in death.
Secondly, she cited numerous scientific papers that concluded that vaginal sex did not transmit HIV.
Ms Papadopulos-Eleopulos cited a 1997 published paper by University of California researcher Nancy Padian that calculated the risk of a male transmitting HIV to a female at 0.0009 per cent, for each act of vaginal intercourse.
According to the Padian paper, a man would have to have sex with his wife three times a week for 27.4 years to expose her to a 95 per cent risk of passing on HIV.
Ms Papadopulos-Eleopulos's colleague at the Perth Group, Val Turner, testified that the testing of HIV was "indirect" - it measured the presence of proteins and antibodies in blood assumed to be triggered by HIV.
Mr Turner said there was no test to directly detect HIV.
www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto...html -
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Re: The PERTH GROUP died with ELVIS! ALL HIV THEORIES MUST CHANGE CONSTANTLY to CAUSE AIDS
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 7:04 PMGood Luck!
A 22 yr old Man who infected 7 teenage Girls ages 15-19 yrs old 5 years ago tried that here in the U.S.(to get aquitted on the basis that AIDS does not exist).
He's now serving a Life Sentence for his efforts.
So much for the Denialis't Theory, It doesn't stand up in a U.S. Court of law.
In the United States it is a Federal Felony to NOT tell your sexual partner you are POZ if you KNOW you have HIV. -
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ONLY <<< 28 states in the US with HIV transmission Laws.... HIV TESTS WORTHLESS
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 9:56 PM"In the United States it is a Federal Felony to NOT tell your sexual partner you are POZ if you KNOW you have HIV. "
Criminalizes HIV Transmission? Statute and Type of Crime
Criminalizes HIV Transmission? Statute and Type of Crime
United States 28 States YES
Alabama Yes ALA Code § 22-11A-21 (Class C misdemeanor)
Alaska No
Arizona No
Arkansas Yes Ark. Code Ann. § 5-14-123 (Class A felony)/ Ark. Code Ann. § 20-15-903 (Class A misdemeanor)
California Yes Cal. Health & Saf. Code § 120291 (Felony punishable by imprisonment for 3,5 or 8 years)/ Cal. Health & Saf. Code § 120290 (Misdemeanor) / Cal. Health & Saf. Code § 1621.5 (Felony punishable by imprisonment for 2, 4 or 6 years)/ Cal. Pen. Code § 12022.85 (3 year sentencing enhancement)
Colorado Yes Colo. Rev. Stat. § 18-7-201.7 (Class 5 felony) / Colo. Rev. Stat. § 18-7-205.7 (Class 6 felony)
Connecticut No
Delaware No
District of Columbia No
Florida Yes Fla. Stat. Ann. § 384.24 / Fla. Stat. Ann. § 381.0041 (11)(b) (3rd Degree Felony)
Georgia Yes Ga. Code Ann. § 16-5-60(c) (Felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years) / Ga. Code Ann. § 16-5-60(d) (Felony punishable by imprisonment for not less than 5 and not more than 20 years)
Hawaii No
Idaho Yes Idaho Code § 39-608 (Felony punishable by imprisonment for a period not to exceed 15 years or by fine not in excess of $5,000 or by both)
Illinois Yes Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/12-16.2 (Class 2 felony)
Indiana Yes Ind. Code Ann. § 35-42-1-7 (Class C felony for committing the act; Class A felony if the act results in transmission of HIV) / Ind. Code Ann. § 35-42-2-6(c) (Class D felony for committing the act; Class C felony if the defendant knew or recklessly failed to know that the bodily fluid or waste was infected with Hepatitis B, HIV or TB; Class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the fluid or waste was infected with Hepatitis B or TB and the offense results in transmission; Class A felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the bodily fluid or waste was infected with HIV and the offense resulted in transmission) / Ind. Code Ann. § 35-42-2-6(d) (Class D felony if they person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, semen, urine or fecal waste was infected with Hepatitis B, HIV or TB; Class C felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, semen, urine, or fecal waste was infected with Hepatitis B or TB and the act results in transmission; Class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, semen, urine, or fecal waste was infected with HIV and transmission resulted.
Iowa Yes Iowa Code § 709 C (Class B felony)
Kansas No
Kentucky Yes Ky. Rev. Stat. § 529.090 (Class D felony) / Ky. Rev. Stat. § 311.990 (Class D felony)
Louisiana Yes La. Rev. Stat. § 43.5 (Fined not more than $5,000 or imprisoned for not more than 11 years or both; if the victim is a police officer acting in the line of duty then the fine increases by $1,000)
Maine No
Maryland Yes Md. Code Ann. Health-General § 18-601 (Fine of $2,500 or imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or both)
Massachusetts No
Michigan Yes Mich. Comp. Laws § 333.5210 (Felony)
Minnesota No
Mississippi No
Missouri Yes Mo. Rev. Stat § 191.677 (Class B felony; Class A felony if transmission occurs)
Montana Yes Mont. Code Ann. § 50-18-112 (Misdemeanor)
Nebraska No
Nevada Yes Nev. Rev. Stat. § 201.205 (Category B felony punishable by imprisonment for not less than 2 years and not more than 10 years or by a fine of not more than $10,000 or both) / Nev. Rev. Stat § 201.358 (Category B felony punishable by imprisonment for not less than 2 years and not more than 10 years or by a fine of not more than $10,000 or both)
New Hampshire No
New Jersey Yes N.J. Stat. § 2C:34-5 (3rd degree crime)
New Mexico No
New York Yes NY Public Health Law § 2307 (Misdemeanor)
North Carolina No
North Dakota Yes N.D. Cent. Code § 12-1-20-17 (Class A felony)
Ohio Yes Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 2927.13 (Fourth Degree felony)
Oklahoma Yes Okla. Stat. § 1192.1 (Felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years) / Okla. Stat. § 1031 (Felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years) / Okla. Stat. § 1-519 (Felony)
Oregon No
Pennsylvania Yes 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 2703 (2nd degree felony) / 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 2704 (Penalty shall be the same for murder in the 2nd degree) / 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5902(a) (Felony of the 3rd degree) / 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5902(b) (Felony of the 3rd degree) / 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5902(e) (Felony of the 3rd degree)
Rhode Island No
South Carolina Yes S.C. Code Ann. § 44-29-145 (Felony punishable by fine of not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than 10 years)
South Dakota Yes S.D Codified Laws § 22-18-31 (Class 3 felony)
Tennessee Yes Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-13-109 (Class C felony) / Tenn. Code Ann. § 68-10-107 (Class C misdemeanor)
Texas No
Utah Yes Utah Code Ann § 76-10-1309 (Felony of the third degree)
Vermont No
Virginia Yes Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-67, 4:1(A) (Class 6 felony) / Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-67, 4:1(B) (Class 1 misdemeanor) / Va. Code Ann. § 32.1-289.2 (Class 6 felony)
Washington No
West Virginia No
Wisconsin No
Wyoming No
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
statehealthfacts.org/cgi-bin...acts.cgi
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Im April, 1984 Margaret Heckler, Secretary US Dept of Health and Human Services said at a NON SCIENTIFIC PRESS CONFERENCE:
"First, the probable cause of AIDS has been found, a variant of a known human cancer virus. Second, not only has the agent been identified, but a new process has been developed to mass produce this virus. Thirdly, with discovery of both the virus and this new process, we now have a blood test for AIDS. With the blood test we can identify AIDS victims with essentially 100 percent certainty."
As far as her claim that we now have a blood test for AIDS with essentially 100 percent certainty, all aids test kits contain a disclaimer, below are some samples:
*ELISA HIV Antibody Test Kit Insert*
~At present there is no recognized standard for establishing the presence and absence of HIV1 and HIV2 in human blood.~
*Western Blot HIV Antibody Test Kit Insert*
~ A sample that is reactive in both the ELISA screening test and the Western Blot is PRESUMED to be positive for antibody to HIV indicating infection with this virus.
*Viral Load/PCR HIV Test Kit Insert*
~The Amplicor HIV-1 monitor test is not intended to be used as a screening test for HIV or as a diagnostic test to confirm the presence of HIV infection.~
Then what does it mean to test HIV positive? The tests are not a test for AIDS or even HIV, although it is claimed that the test is for HIV antibodies, it is not. What the tests do is test for anti-bodies that may or may not have anything to do with AIDS or HIV, because the test is non-specific. In the words of:
Robert Da Prato, MD, HIV testing specialist for the US Armed Services:
"I don't recommend people ever getting tested. The reason is I don't know what the tests mean, and I think no one else knows what the tests mean. I’ ve never seen any evidence that what these tests purport to show they're actually showing; namely, the presence of a virus, the presence of an exogenous virus. I really would like to see the electron microscopic data of this, and apparently there is none. There is none where you've done a rigorous isolation protocol."
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All Hell Would break Loose!
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:07 PM*So much for the Denialis't Theory, It doesn't stand up in a U.S. Court of law. *
The true story of how government lies and incompetence, gross medical malpractice, and unbridled greed by a drug company cost 300,000 American lives in just ten years,
WRONGFUL DEATH: The AIDS Trial
is a work of fiction based on fact.
Follow along with attorney Benjamin Messick and health reporter Sarah Meadows in this fictitious class-action lawsuit to prove that in the decade from 1987 to 1997, three-hundred-thousand Americans died not from some horrible disease caused by a virus, but as a result of taking the very drug they were told would help them. Urged on by their doctors, parents, families and loved-ones, these HIV-positives took AZT, a drug originally designed and created in 1964 to kill cancer cells, but found to be far too toxic to a human body because it destroyed the immune system.
Read the testimony of witness after witness - all based on over 900 actual medical and scientific research papers and reports (available here) - that when the FDA finally approved AZT for the treatment of AIDS in 1987, it began causing Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome; and every person who took it - healthy or not - would die within four years from one of many different opportunistic diseases.
Find out from expert legal witnesses why the virus we have been calling HIV cannot be the cause of AIDS - not then, not now, and not ever. Discover for yourself that the only reason the HIV virus was thought to cause AIDS was the announcement at a press conference in 1984 by Dr. Robert Gallo that he had found the virus responsible for this deadly new disease. However, it turns out that Dr. Gallo did not discover the HIV virus at all, that he stole the virus from a French scientist at the Pasteur Institute (just like he stole one from the Japanese years earlier), that he had a long history of similar scientific misconduct, and, according to the Office of Research Integrity of the National Institutes of Health (where Gallo worked), some of Gallo's key HIV and AIDS research was "of dubious scientific merit" and "really crazy." A Congressional investigation also found that Gallo lied on his patent application for the HIV tests, which then earned him over a million dollars.
TheAIDSTrial.com ~ Stephen Davis
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Unsu...
Re: The PERTH GROUP died with ELVIS! ALL HIV THEORIES MUST CHANGE CONSTANTLY to CAUSE AIDS
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 7:07 PMyeah, that happened in my home state. I think he lost.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 8:07 PM
"The HIV Virus wich you dispute as being real is constantly evolving and changing to the point that last WEEKS news on it is "old News".
Information on AIDS that is more than five years old is "Scientifically Useless""
Hmmmm....that should make you think right there.
What's the easiest way to tell when someone is lying? Their story keeps changing!
They HAVE to keep changing the story, because everytime they turn around they realize that last week's theory is scientifically unsupportable.
To date, there have been more than 20 different hypotheses to explain how HIV kills CD4 cells, each one a replacement for a failed predecessor. Only a few weeks ago in JAMA, it was revealed by Dr. Benigno Rodquiguez (NOT a dissident, BTW) that there's almost no correlation (only 4%) between viral load and eventual CD4 depletion. So now they have to go back to the drawing board once again to concoct another lie -- this one likely to involve HIV somehow causing AIDS without depleting CD4 cells.
--- Gos -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 9:59 PMIn refference to "Old News" I was speaking of your Fabled and most hallowed "Perth Group" known in the Scientific Community as the oldest news on AIDS.
Every "Therory" to date conjured up by The Perth Group had been disproven.
But continue your rant...its quite entertaining.
*does anyone have a Playstation in here?
Hows it going with the creation of your HIV/AIDS Game? Have you contacted Atari Yet Tomas? they may be interested in manufacturing your game,for a nice big cut of the profits of course!.
Atari's last BIG Game was "Roller Coaster Tycoon -3" did you know Tomas? they sold over 3 million copies..better Hurry..Atari is your best hope for your new AIDS Game! -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:04 PMTomas
If your still here,then why did you pvt message me tonight to tell you you were "deleted from Tribe" using an "Unsubscribed" avatar?
Ohh well now that your still here read below.
I can hear Atari calling you..Oops no,that was your Mommy,your milk and cookies are all set in front of your Playstation..time to go home to Mommy now.Grab that controller..C'mon liddle boi play your Games. -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:08 PMOhh wow, you Posted Margaret Heckler's 1984 conference announcement on AIDS
Hmm? oh yes 22 years ago. when you were just out of Diapers Tomas.
Yeah I guess 1984's AIDS information is VERY relivant..in your Child's Mindset. -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:08 PMKeep feeding us your bullshit....as Wally used to say "wer'e all Ears"! -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:09 PMIsn't there a Playstation that needs your attention right about now Tomas? -
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Re: DOMINIC
Sat, December 9, 2006 - 10:23 PMJake why is it that you feel the need to attack Tomas's age?? do you feel that cuz your older that you know better? If you have something to say that is relavent to what he is saying about HIV then please do so but please stop taking cheap shots at him as you like to point out he is young and there for you are old and you should set the example?
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IT'S BEEN 22 YEARS...
Mon, December 11, 2006 - 12:02 AMIt has been 22 years since "HIV," "a variant of a known human cancer virus," was announced by media press release as being the probable cause of AIDS by Dr. Robert Gallo and Health and Human Services Secretary Margaret Heckler. Thus it has been about 22 years since Dr. Gallo rushed that same day to patent the first "HIV" test kit, and was subsequently convicted of scientific misconduct by the Dingell Commission and the Office of Scientific Integrity of the NIH for attempting to steal Luc Montagnier's so-called "HIV-virus isolate [1]."
It has also been about 22 years since chimp colonies were injected with "isolates" of "HIV" obtained from AIDS patients, but have yet to become ill, as they sit in their new 27 million dollar retirement homes [2].
At the beginning of HIV testing, it was known that “68% to 89% of all repeatedly reactive ELISA (HIV antibody) tests represent false positive results among sperm donors [3], and 14 years ago, it was reported that “HIV-like sequences exist in normal in human, chimpanzee, and rhesus monkey DNAs" [4]. That same year, it was reported that the hepatitis B vaccine causes false positive "HIV" test results [5].
It has been about 14 years since The Veterans Affairs Cooperative Study Group reported that "AZT disproportionately harmed Blacks and Hispanics, and provided no benefit to the quelling of advancing immune suppression in Caucasians" [6].
It has been about 12 years since the announcement of the Concorde study reported that "The results of Concorde do not encourage the early use of zidovudine (AZT) in symptom-free HIV-infected adults. They also call into question the uncritical use of CD4 cell counts as a surrogate endpoint for assessment of benefit from long-term antiretroviral therapy" [7].
It has been 11 years since it was reported that flu vaccines cause false positive "HIV" test results [8]
It has been about 9 years since it was reported that “no seroconversions" were observed among 175 HIV-discordant couples (where one partner tests positive, one negative), for a total of approximately 282 couple-years of follow up in a 10- year study [9].
It has been about 7 years since it was published in The Journal, AIDS, that children born to ZDV-treated mothers "are more likely to have a rapid course of HIV-1 infection compared with children born to untreated mothers, as disease progression and immunological deterioration are significantly more rapid and the risk of death is actually increased during the first 3 years of life" [10].
It has also been about 7 years since it was known that goats and cows test "HIV-positive” [11].
It has also been It has been about 4 years since the announcement in The Journal of Virology regarding the severe toxicity of saquinovir and other protease inhibitors [12], and about 2 years since the announcement in the New England Journal of Medicine that vitamin supplements can ward off progression to AIDS in the absence of HAART (Highly Active Anti-Retroviral Therapy) [13].
It has been about 2 years since the announcement of the failure of AIDSVAX, the 120 million dollar effort to vaccinate against "HIV" [14], and 2 years since the Red Cross reported that even after repeated testing using different test kits, low-risk populations, such as blood donors (or military recruits) will typically yield 12 (PCR) positive or 2 (ELISA) positive results out of 37,000,000 samples, leaving potentially 10 out of 12 false positives, depending on which test kit you believe [15].
It has more than a year since the announcement that the government's chief of AIDS research, Dr. Edmond Tremont, rewrote a safety report on a U.S.-funded drug study to change its conclusions and delete negative information, and later, ordered the research resumed over the objections of his staff, so that George W. Bush's pharmaceutical friend's $500 million dollar plan to distribute nevirapine to African women would proceed, even though the drug's approval was withdrawn in the U.S. because of excessive toxicity [16].
It only has been a year or so since the Institute of Medicine covered up and trivialized Tremont's criminal behavior, according to Johnathan Fishbein, who blew the whistle, and was subsequently fired from his position as safety officer for the Nevaripine trials that Tremont, his boss, fudged [17].
This summer at the Toronto International AIDS conference, Barre-Sinoussi (one of Luc Montagnier’s original group from whom Dr. Gallo hijacked LAV, later to be called “HIV”) "came out of the closet”, and said:
“It is not clear if therapeutic vaccines might be useful, since 15 trials to date have not demonstrated definitive evidence of improved outcomes.”
This month it was announced that “viral load" is only able to predict progression to disease in 4% to 6% of HIV-positives studied, challenging much of the basis for current AIDS science and treatment policy” [18, 19].
barnesworld.blogs.com/barnes_...ory.html
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