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Over the past 10 or so days, I have been participating, both online and in person, in discussions about Pride. (Call it what you will — Gay Pride, Lesbian and Gay Pride, Queer Pride — it's got many names now — in Chicago, some years back, the big parade simply became the Pride Parade, to avoid all the alphabet soup, I think.) Here in Chicago, as in New York and San Francisco and some other cities, we have our Pride festivities on the last weekend of June, which honors the Stonewall Riots, which is, of course, how Pride parades began. I know some other cities have them at different times of the year.
Anyway, lots of cool people whom I respect have said they basically avoid the parade and other Pride activities. Not necessarily because they don't like crowds, but they just don't like what the parade (and other events) have turned into. Now, I imagine that complaining about the commercialization of Pride this particular Tribe is preaching to the choir, and I am one of many who disdain the senseless largely drunken embrace of the corporate takeover of our parade — but I think there's more to it than that. I mean, it's our fucking holiday! Why do we let Miller Lite and Starbucks and an endless stream of straight politicians (only some of whom are really our allies) take it over? And then I say to myself: Well, make a difference! Challenge the status quo. (Not only to make myself feel better — but to try to clue in the younger generation as to what Pride should be about. At least, according to me. ;-)
Does your city have a Dyke March? (Chicago does.) If so, I highly recommend attending. That's where you'll find all the coolest queers — the dykes, fags, trannies who know there's still work to be done. This year, Chicago's Dyke March wasn't in a "safe" queer enclave on the north side; it was in a neighborhood on the south side, one with lots of artists and a lot of Latino/a immigrants. Most of them embraced us. It was a super day, so much fun and empowering. And of course, moving it to a largely non-white neighborhood helps encourage conversations that need to happen around the racism (whether institutional or individual) in our own LGBT community.
The next day, a very small crew faeries (seven of us, men and women both) went to the big Pride Parade on Sunday dressed like corporate mascots. We did a mock wedding with a mock priest (the corporate-merger vows were hilarious, although I'll admit, we needed a bullhorn to make them heard). We got to celebrate California's gay marriage advancement (still important for many of us in terms of equal rights, whether or not we personally value the two-person marriage model) while satirizing the corporations who just tap us as a market with extra disposable income. (There's a pic in my profile, in case you're curious.)
My point is: We can stay home and gripe about what Pride has become. Or we can get busy and do something about it. Hopefully with humor — that always seems to work best. (What's the old adage? "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.") And let us not forget, there's also, always, a place for celebration. Let's do the work AND have fun. Strive for balance!
Anyway, lots of cool people whom I respect have said they basically avoid the parade and other Pride activities. Not necessarily because they don't like crowds, but they just don't like what the parade (and other events) have turned into. Now, I imagine that complaining about the commercialization of Pride this particular Tribe is preaching to the choir, and I am one of many who disdain the senseless largely drunken embrace of the corporate takeover of our parade — but I think there's more to it than that. I mean, it's our fucking holiday! Why do we let Miller Lite and Starbucks and an endless stream of straight politicians (only some of whom are really our allies) take it over? And then I say to myself: Well, make a difference! Challenge the status quo. (Not only to make myself feel better — but to try to clue in the younger generation as to what Pride should be about. At least, according to me. ;-)
Does your city have a Dyke March? (Chicago does.) If so, I highly recommend attending. That's where you'll find all the coolest queers — the dykes, fags, trannies who know there's still work to be done. This year, Chicago's Dyke March wasn't in a "safe" queer enclave on the north side; it was in a neighborhood on the south side, one with lots of artists and a lot of Latino/a immigrants. Most of them embraced us. It was a super day, so much fun and empowering. And of course, moving it to a largely non-white neighborhood helps encourage conversations that need to happen around the racism (whether institutional or individual) in our own LGBT community.
The next day, a very small crew faeries (seven of us, men and women both) went to the big Pride Parade on Sunday dressed like corporate mascots. We did a mock wedding with a mock priest (the corporate-merger vows were hilarious, although I'll admit, we needed a bullhorn to make them heard). We got to celebrate California's gay marriage advancement (still important for many of us in terms of equal rights, whether or not we personally value the two-person marriage model) while satirizing the corporations who just tap us as a market with extra disposable income. (There's a pic in my profile, in case you're curious.)
My point is: We can stay home and gripe about what Pride has become. Or we can get busy and do something about it. Hopefully with humor — that always seems to work best. (What's the old adage? "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.") And let us not forget, there's also, always, a place for celebration. Let's do the work AND have fun. Strive for balance!
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Sat, July 5, 2008 - 4:38 PMWeb wrote: ...but I think there's more to it than that. I mean, it's our fucking holiday!
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My question is, do we really need a holiday, preceded by a month of wallowing in our gayness, that's ripe for picking by corporate interests? I mean hey, a lot of men like getting fucked in the ass, but there's usually a useful context to it, rather than collectively, willingly baring our asses like a castro-tweaker whore for a couple of dollars.
I'm beginning to believe the whole concept is a relic. When corporate culture invades and replaces culture, it's officially dead, irrelevant, useless for anything but for a marketing tool. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 11:48 PMI generally avoid the "gay community" altogether. It seems to have no system in place to encourage and foster committed, monogamous, spiritual relationships, and that is what I came to earth to experience. I have never and will never understand the attraction to casual, anonymous, nameless sex with an endless stream of strangers. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 1:32 PMI rather go to pride to make a scene rather than to join one.
This year I went to Pride on the Plaza in Santa Fe for my first time which had a different flavor than Albuquerque, San Francisco, or Milwaukee which are the only pride festivities Ive ever been to.
The happenings in Santa Fe was more like a hometown picnic with an artsy, multi-cultural, intergenerational vibe that I found rather refreshing than the mardi-gra-esque halloweenic hedonism displays of self-referencing that one might find in the larger more established scenes in some cities.
Kudos to the mistresses of ceremony of Santa Fe Pride the ever lovely Wenda Watch and eternally fabulous Guava Chiffon for their blissful blurr of spirit and patriotism. Yummy performances by the gender offenders and other talented qweer artists this year too. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 7:07 PMok... I wrote a Journal entry about this on Mypace (i decided not to post it in my blog here for a couple of reasons).
I had an epiphany WHY pride matters while traveling through the south and getting to know actually three (but journal identifies two) gay family members. These members are either closeted or in denial or completely scathed by their sexuality and how others treated it. In getting to know these three family members i felt like "Fuck! I'm better adjusted than these poor saps... with all of my faults and neurosis at least I can say i'm 25 and my sexuality is resolved." I'll post the LONG journal entry here.. if you want to comb through it for the full story.
But in short length, Commercialism aside (everything is commercialized these days...we live in America ..derrr) events like Gay Pride around the country, even Folsom and Dorey Ally are PRIDE events as far as i'm concerned.. Bottom line: Pride events are there. 50 something years ago they weren't. The older generation had NOTHING to hold on to and confirm in mass that they were NOT insane...NOT evil... NOT damned...NOT Damaged... but rather whole and linked to greater mass of diverse displays of sexual freedom. I'm not like every African american in this country... but I share a commonality which fueled Civil rights in the mid 20th. I don't have to identify specifically with every african american...and I don't have to with every single queer as well. But PRIDE is what you make of it..and i make of it that its a month where we release a signal out to the world that we exist and our diverse niches get a chance to combine and celebrate existence.
In San Francisco, I don't even really see the mainstream gays really "winning" over the "alterna queer". I no longer understand the resentment some gay men have over the "mainstream" because in reality the mainstream is a gas that the straights create to sell shit. Sure you have your Madonna listening vapid queers but you have your counter... Your leather daddies.. your queer punks... and your drag queens. If you show up or do a party in the city for your corner of the GLBT pride, you get noticed. In the pride parades I see every shade a sexual FREAK right down to the queer republican leather daddy with a thing for Croatian trannies.
I'm glad i can sodomize and not be thrown in jail and that i live in an age where gay clubs don't get raided. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 7:13 PM
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 8:14 PM<If you show up or do a party in the city for your corner of the GLBT pride, you get noticed. In the pride parades I see every shade a sexual FREAK right down to the queer republican leather daddy with a thing for Croatian trannies.>
OMG! You found me out!
Seriously, thanks for a very thoughtful contribution to the discussion. You make a very lucid analogy between the African American and the Gay quest for civil rights. In my lifetime, Gay people were called illegal, immoral and ill by law, church and medicine. As a member of that class, I was slandered and vilified by the fact of my /being/ with no individual judgement of my personal merits or faults. Is there any better definition of prejudice?
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 11:55 AMMad Jack wrote: ...(everything is commercialized these days...we live in America ..derrr)
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Yes, it's inevitable. We are helpless, we must accept it, let's enjoy what crumbs are tossed our way. That's a mantra for the oppressed.
The very reasons you say to continue pride celebrations are contradictory to your stance on corporatizing our culture.
Might as well go back in the closet - nothing we can do but take it. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 12:53 PM>>Yes, it's inevitable. We are helpless, we must accept it, let's enjoy what crumbs are tossed our way. That's a mantra for the oppressed.
The very reasons you say to continue pride celebrations are contradictory to your stance on corporatizing our culture.<<<
The "mantra for the oppressed" ...
"Lets bitch and moan and give up" The only way to destroy a solid structure is from the inside out. Simply understanding that commercialization/commerce is how our civilization works in one step towards realizing "we have the upper the hand". The counter-culture has ALWAYS won out. Mainstream culture today IS mostly comprised of thoughts, ideas and notions that were counter-culture. From Punk to Magik to poly-amorism to even Tattoos... THEY want to be US. Douglass Rushkoff made this point in many of his books.. Take the money, get inside the corporation, spew your ideas and be the change in the world you want to see. Apathy gets you nowhere.
I'm saying... Pride celebrations are Pride celebrations. They are what you make of it... and how you VIEW that period of time and what you do during that period of time is fully up to you. You don't HAVE to go to the parade... but if you...show up and make a scene instead of be in a scene as someone posted in this thread. You are totally missing Web's point. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 1:22 PMMad Jack wrote: ...Apathy gets you nowhere.
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Thank you, you made my point for me. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 4:14 PMExcuse me but your posts are clearly apathetic.
Boo hoo... It's corporate now... why should we have a month wallowing in our gayness?
You're stuck on the corporation side of it and not getting that it's all spit and shine. It's not really pride. Thats cover... whats in it is what you put into it..and by completely writing off Pride, which is of course your choice, you are totally being apathetic. That how YOU choose to view the events. I'm personally over viewing the COVER Pride, The men in tight briefs, the drugs, As pride and instead focusing on what it actually means.
Another point i don't think you quite understand that i'm trying to make Clear is that one has the POWER to steer Pride events and festivities in their Local yard. You show Up...You get involved... you completely have the power. The Corps are really footing the bill for your stage. Tons of queers who don't fit into the "mold" do it at Pride... the actual event and parties that piggy back the parade. It's also an awesome opportunity YOU have to further any agenda YOU have.... Throw a party... organize a Charity event...or Rally. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 5:01 PMMad Jack wrote: ...Excuse me but your posts are clearly apathetic.
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No, you're just choosing to interpret them that way so you can find a way to be "right" as you've been wrong with nearly every observation thus far. And this post of yours is no exception. You're way out in left field talkin to yourself, honey.
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 8:51 PM>My question is, do we really need a holiday, preceded by a month of wallowing in our gayness, that's ripe for picking by corporate interests? I mean hey, a lot of men like getting fucked in the ass, but there's usually a useful context to it, rather than collectively, willingly baring our asses like a castro-tweaker whore for a couple of dollars.<<
Not particularly directed at Scooter, but Men/women/trans with this line of thinking lead me to wonder if it's a generation thing. The queer apathy. Or an "outsider" complex. Where you have to be opposed to anything inclusive even if you are white sheep amongst Black sheep, so you go off further into the pasture and find a commune of black sheep but you reject them because your faced with the fact you're not alone. Not special. I mean, do queers with this think actually talk with and know the older generation... those who were like 20 around 1958..and lived through persecution... horror and then this ray of light in the 70's only to watch their friends evaporate from AIDS. Try The Mens room in the darker area of the Castro and strike up a convo with an old man... he might flirt with you... but listen to them. Over an entire year of going to this little nieghborhood bar (my favorite actually) I fumbled on some AMAZING stories from Old lesbians and Gay men... often in their 60s who remember Harvey Milk dying...One was AT stonewall... that was an amazing convo..... One older gent spent an hour telling me about an unbelievable story about growing up in a small town in Organ, and coming to the city in the middle of the hippie movement...falling in love with a guy, only to have his brains blown out in front of him by a basher.
There are still people who live in a religious wonderworld of self torment. They try to cure themselves. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 12:00 PMMad Jack wrote: ...The queer apathy. Or an "outsider" complex.
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You're reading it wrong. It's not a statement of apathy or outsider mentality, it's the exact opposite.
Your post is especially humorous because you're assuming I didn't experience the 70's. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 12:56 PM>>
You're reading it wrong. It's not a statement of apathy or outsider mentality, it's the exact opposite.
Your post is especially humorous because you're assuming I didn't experience the 70's.<<
Well you act like it. You're incredibly negative and ungrateful. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 1:25 PMMad Jack wrote: ...Well you act like it. You're incredibly negative and ungrateful.
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Nope. That's just how you're choosing to perceive it.
Just as you're taking the exact opposite viewpoint to the meaning of my post and criticize it. But somehow I'm the one being negative? hehehe Honey, you're all over the map.
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Mon, July 14, 2008 - 7:23 PMI'm in total agreement. Whenever a corporate money-making greed interest begins to dominate, then one only receives a packaged, pre-planned item/experience and loses any meaning (other than buyer beware) to their experience. I haven't participated in a "Pride" parade since 2000 in San Diego. It was filled with marketing for Absolut Vodka, Miller Light, Jocko, etc. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 2:53 PMAm i the only one who sees the interest of Miller, Priceline, Orbitz, Bank of America, Ford...the rest as an actual positive...however dubious in nature the reasoning... The upside is that companies and advertisers are tossing money into luering gay men and women and even trannies at events. Theres power in that. -
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Re: Do you celebrate
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 3:08 PMSelling out queer identity to corporations who sell us things that we dont want or need
Selling out queer identity to those who reduce our selfhood to sex practices or body parts
.... the lesser of which evil?
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 5:55 PMI personally don't but that's because I find pride to be rather capatalistic, consumerist, and being gay is just an aspect of myself and it's not like I go up to people when I first meet them and say "Hi I'm Dave and I'm gay!".
Not to say that if you are into pride that you're in support of mindless consumerism or that you will go up to people who you don't know at all and start telling them you're gay (I mean straight people don't do this, at least not like some gay men do), and that just because you're into pride that it means that you subscribe to the consumerism of a fake gay "Community" and a fake gay "culture" either.
I think that MadJackCash is right that pride does matter in a sense that it can show people who are closeted how being trans/bisexual/gay/lesbian isn't that bad, even if they live in parts of the country where they'd get killed/shunned by family/friends if they were out.
This isn't to say that being queer and out in a small town in a rural area is bad at all. I have lived in rural areas and life in rural areas if you're queer isn't a living hell and yes you can be out.
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 8:29 PMwell, i honestly think that we need a pride parade, at least for now. for me its the only time that i have to actually be who i want to be with out question. sure there are the protesters and all, but at the time they don't exist you know? its shows how our community is still standing strong and growing despite constant opposition, and that makes me smile. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Sun, July 13, 2008 - 11:38 AMGay Pride parades are over-rated! -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 9:55 AMWow. A wide range of responses. That's great. (Although I never like to see reasoned debate descend into name calling.)
I strongly disagree with this sentiment: "When corporate culture invades and replaces culture, it's officially dead, irrelevant, useless for anything but for a marketing tool." I am no fan of corporate culture — quite the opposite — but why allow corporations to make our culture "dead"? It's a great shame that so many interesting queers stay home from Pride celebrations, because then the people who are just coming out (whatever their age) and especially the new generation sees only some weird corporatized, sanitized vision of GLBT life. If we allow others to define us, that's the biggest shame of all. It's important for us to go out there and reclaim our culture(s).
The pushback against the mainstream has often yields the most interesting art and cultural movements. As gay people become more accepted into American mainstream, I say: Let's make sure we don't become too assimilated. Let's make sure our history is accurately reflected. And let's keep it real — which means not go-go-dancing on a Miller Lite float. (If some boys wanna go-do dance, then I say: Let 'em do it for a locally owned gay bar or club.)
Anyway, a few voices here have pointed out that there is a need for a strong gay presence (Pride festivals, parades, etc.) because they don't otherwise feel safe/comfortable in their everyday lives. It is probably all too easy for those of us who've been out for years to take our "outness" for granted — plus, many of us live in big cities where it's not an issue. (Or at least, not much of one.) But that's not true for everyone. My nephew, who just turned 19, just came out this spring. He lives in the 'burbs and is still very much in that chrysalis stage, a little nervous about taking the next steps. I fervently wish for him to see the broad spectrum of GLBT lives out there — and (for all the corporate excess) the Parade offers that. Openly queer people from many different religious paths (from Christian to Jewish to Buddhist), left-wing anti-war groups, Queers for Obama, Log Cabin Republicans, Dykes on Bikes, gay guys on bicycles (pedal power, not oil power), the whole shmear — I think it's great for him to see it all. (Not to mention PFLAG! How affirming are they?! Every year. Hooray for them.) But until he figures a few more things out for himself, I also want to be around to explain to him how we had to march in the '70s and '80s without such approval and "endorsement" from politicians and from Starbucks, and how many of us still wish they'd butt out of our celebration for one day. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Thu, July 17, 2008 - 1:59 PMWeb wrote: ...but why allow corporations to make our culture "dead"?
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That is precisely my question. So it's not that you disagree with the statement, rather you don't agree with how the community is handling the situation and that we need to reclaim it. Which is also my point, so I'm glad we agree. Most everyone just smirks and essentially says "who cares." Just a little enabling going on there.
And you make a very fine point about folks who come from the outskirts - the whole event is intended to be more for them than those putting it on. But if they're seeing their identity wrapped up and sanitized by corporate cultures then what kind of devalued statement does that make about their identity, who they are, will or can be and what is the community? It certainly doesn't speak of empowerment, it speaks of abject powerlessness. That's the whole problem. I don't want the next generation of folks to lose all that we've worked for because they feel powerless again. That would truly suck. You're also right about what you've inferred, that these things run in cycles and it's a growing/learning thing. It's just tough to watch sometimes and we all have to pay our dues at some point.
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 3:24 PMWell said Simon. For some of us the only contact we get with other gay people is at a Pride event. It can be lonely and depressing with no queer contact. So what if there are labels all over everything. There's usually booths with info and community things. Why not celebrate? If some of those that usually stay home came out like someone else posted the newbies would see a larger variety of gay experience. When you get a lot of young horny men together, with booze, you're going to have a party. So let's party. Life is short, we should live it to the fullest.
This is how I feel about it. I see good points in what everyone has posted so far. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 3:28 PMPlease let me amend that. When you get a lot of young and old horny men together....I know plenty of greybeards who can drink the boys under the table. -
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 8:39 PMAnd that amendment just impressed this greybeard. Come get your hug. More if you like.
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Re: Do you celebrate Pride?
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 10:53 AMHear hear! Let us celebrate ... and promote the subversive components of our identities too. It's even possible to do both at once — I know my fellow faeries and I had a blast during Chicago's Pride Parade tweaking the corporate culture. (On the back of my yellow Ronald McDonald shirt, I wrote with a black marker: "McSodomy ... I'm Lovin Him!" Got some good laughs with that one.)
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Re: celebrate
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 9:03 PMAn alternative to Pride could be trying out for the shamanatrix talent pageant
in the desert.
This year, if I dont at least place Im moving back to Satans Disco to revive Trannyshack.
Its so challenging albeit not improbable to be both revolutionary and alternative in a post-modern world.
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